I [31M] have been with my wife [30F] since we were teenagers. We have always agreed we didn't want kids. She seems to be changing her mind. I haven't. (self.relationships)

{relationships}

81 ups - 17 downs = 64 votes

That pretty much sums it up but the longer version: we dated since high school, got married when we were 26, and have a pretty much wonderful relationship otherwise. We never argue, regular sex, both good jobs, own our house, good neighborhood, stable jobs, pretty much the perfect little married life.

One thing we've always agreed on throughout our relationship is that neither one of us wanted kids. They're expensive, they're so much responsibility and work, they cry all the goddamn time, you never get a good night's sleep, they grow out of every piece of clothing you buy 2 minutes after you buy it, they shit like horses, etc. etc. And that's just the first year or two.

Our joke has kind of always been that while all our other friends started having kids and stopped having lives, we were going to still be the fun couple who were able to go on vacations and buy frivolous things, or drop everything on the spur of the moment and go spend a weekend away somewhere and shit like that. We were going to be the old people in the prescription drug commercials jogging along the beach instead of the frazzled parent trying to make sure our kid doesn't miss the bus while we get ready for work.

Well.....my wife's clock seems to be ticking. A bunch of women she works with (including a close friend) are pregnant and she finally admitted to me tonight that--not now--but a few years down the road, when we're more financially secure and life had settled down some, she might like to have a kid.

I.....still don't want kids. At all. I'm an uncle to a little 2 year old and I love being able to be the "fun uncle" and get any dad-feelings out that way, but the second he starts crying or being fussy, I love being able to just say, "Not mine, here, take him back!" I'm not looking to be convinced that kids aren't that bad or I'll feel different if it's my own or whatever. That's fine and dandy and I know and I've heard at all. Still do not want kids.

But I love her and I understand that void women feel when they want kids and, for whatever reason, can't have them. So now I don't know what the fuck to do. I'm hoping that when all her co-workers have their babies, they'll start coming to work telling her horror stories and change her mind.


tl;dr: wife of many years and I always said we didn't want kids. Now she thinks she might. I still don't want any.

111 comments submitted at 03:28:47 on Jan 22, 2014 by 901ninja

  • [-]
  • lhagler
  • 63 Points
  • 04:27:23, 22 January

You know, this is a question that comes to our subreddit a lot, and unfortunately, there's no easy answer. To have a kid or not is a question of simple compatibility. Neither of you is wrong to feel as you do, not her for possibly wanting a kid, and not you for not wanting one. Sadly, there's really no way to compromise on an issue like this, and whichever partner winds up compromising on their desires usually winds up harboring the kind of resentment that can and does end relationships.

So your wife needs to figure out if she really wants a kid or not, because if her answer is absolutely yes and yours is absolutely no, the kindest thing you could do would be to step aside and let her find someone who wants to have a kid with her, especially since she doesn't have all the time in the world.

I realize that it sounds like I'm speaking about the possible end of your relationship with no tact. This situation sucks. No one is the bad guy here, so no one is going to give you the ol' DTMFA, but this situation -- if one of you is not willing and happy to change his or her mind -- this is a relationship killer, plain and simple.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 5 Points
  • 14:53:18, 22 January

I hear ya. It's not something I would want to divorce over. I don't want kids, but who knows, maybe everyone is right and after I have one, I would be thrilled. But I love my wife and would never leave her. We'd make it work. I don't hate kids, so I don't think I would resent her or it. I just have no desire to have any or to change everything about the life we have now.

  • [-]
  • reading_steiner
  • 5 Points
  • 16:50:39, 22 January

> maybe everyone is right and after I have one, I would be thrilled

No. Everyone is not right. If you don't want kids, don't have kids.

  • [-]
  • blackberrycat
  • 164 Points
  • 04:24:27, 22 January

So, there's really only one question:

If she gets pregnant (totally possibly, intentionally or not, with or without your prior agreement) and wants to keep the baby, would you prefer to leave her?

Basically: would you rather have your wife + child, or a divorce?

If you'd rather have the divorce, then sit her down and SERIOUSLY tell her this. Once she realizes how serious you are, then she can decide how serious she is, and either leave you, or give up on motherhood (and be kind of sad about it forever).

Perhaps you should consider vasectomy. Tell her you are planning to get one, and she what her reaction is.

For her to think about: if you get a vasectomy, would she stay with you, or leave and try her chances at a family with somebody else while she still can?

  • [-]
  • preggoham1
  • 44 Points
  • 12:49:19, 22 January

In a thread full of shitty responses, this is one of the few good answers.

I'll also add on: despite what Redditors will tell you, good women will not spermjack men to get pregnant by accident. We understand it's a violation of trust just as much cheating is or more.

I was a former /r/childfree member, though my husband was not. He wanted kids, but said our relationship came before his desire to have children. If the tables were switched, and my husband never wanted children, I would never have had children no matter how much the biological clock ticked. Our marriage comes first. Hopefully your wife feels the same way.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 5 Points
  • 14:55:09, 22 January

Awesome response, thanks for that. Hopefully we'll work it out. Things could change. She said that this isn't something she even wants now. Just something down the road in several years, so who knows what time will bring.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 5 Points
  • 14:57:28, 22 January

I wouldn't divorce my wife over this, no. I'm a very make-the-best-of-a-situation kind of person. I don't want kids, but if she just really wanted to, I would probably end up doing it and we'd make it work and I'd try to be the very best father I could be. I just don't particularly want to go down that path. But I'm not so against it that I'd leave her.

  • [-]
  • daisydelafuente
  • 1 Points
  • 15:19:12, 22 January

Is this the first time she's actually voiced that she wanted a child?

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 15:38:26, 22 January

Yup.

  • [-]
  • spotH3D
  • -13 Points
  • 15:01:46, 22 January

Why no response from OP to this? Best post in the thread.

  • [-]
  • SkyNinja7
  • 23 Points
  • 04:58:41, 22 January

Part of your agreement when you got married was that you two wouldn't have kids. Now she's thinking that she may no longer be happy with that agreement. It's not wrong of her to feel that way, and it's not wrong for you to be upset she wants to change your agreement.

If you truly do not want kids then it's time to have a serious talk with her. If you put this off it'll just get worse. If I was in your shoes I would tell her that part of your marriage agreement was no children, and that you still feel that way. If she truly feels that she needs to have children to be happy then she is free to leave and seek out a relationship where that is an option. If she wants to stay with you then she needs to give up on the idea of kids. I'd also get scheduled for a vasectomy ASAP and let her know you are doing so.

There isn't any compromise when it comes to having kids or not. You both have to make a choice, and if it's not the same choice you have to be willing to walk away, unless you want one of you to be miserable in the relationship. I hope you two can work things out.

  • [-]
  • leavenworth
  • 6 Points
  • 15:15:23, 22 January

> If I was in your shoes I would tell her that part of your marriage agreement was no children, and that you still feel that way.

People do change, and while I agree that it sucks for everyone involved when those changes are incompatible with a marriage, those changes should be considered carefully by both partners and compromises should be reached, even if that compromise is splitting up. She hasn't insisted on kids, she has expressed an interest in possibly having one - she's communicating, something that happens far too rarely on /r/relationships. She's aware of the fact that this is a change. If he brings up "When we got married, we agreed that X", then she may feel uncomfortable bringing up her thoughts in the future, or she may feel justified in shutting down things that would change the status quo (ie, if he starts thinking about leaving his job for another, if they get an opportunity to spend a year traveling, if his mother becomes ill and he wants to let her live with them).

  • [-]
  • SkyNinja7
  • 2 Points
  • 17:03:24, 22 January

That's a fair point. People do change and that's simply a part of life. It's great that she is communicating. The important thing is that they keep communicating and that if this is a deal breaker to him then he needs to communicate that now rather than later. If she is willing to give up the idea of children it's much better to do it now before she has thought about it longer and had more time to get invested in the idea. If she's not willing to give up the idea then it's better for her to know now that he won't do it so that she can leave and find someone who will.

I'm not advocating an ultimatum. I'm advocating clear communication of needs and expectations.

  • [-]
  • leavenworth
  • 1 Points
  • 17:10:28, 22 January

Agreed, continued communication is key. I just meant that bringing up that she used to think differently is probably just going to make her feel defensive or guilty, as it's something she is clearly aware of, and it won't help them resolve anything.

  • [-]
  • nigglereddit
  • 8 Points
  • 09:32:15, 22 January

No advice beyond what's already here. I just wanted to say that you absolutely should not feel bad for not wanting to have kids. It's everything you listed and a lot more.

And I do have kids. There is a LOT of stuff I know I won't be able to do in my life because I'm a father. Kids are an adventure but they are not the only adventure and no matter what you are told they're not necessarily the biggest or best one.

  • [-]
  • Localidiot
  • 1 Points
  • 13:05:30, 22 January

What kind of stuff do you feel like you won't be able to do? Just curious!

  • [-]
  • nigglereddit
  • 2 Points
  • 14:21:38, 22 January

Oh lots of things.

I really, really wanted to climb K2. I'm a pretty good climber and I have a fantastic climbing partner. Together we had a genuine chance of making it as part of an expedition, which would be amazing since as far as I know less than half a dozen British climbers have made it.

Now though, that's gone - neither of us can afford it (it's very expensive) and we can't take on that level of risk with kids. There will be other climbing adventures but the big ones are off the table.

  • [-]
  • vortican
  • 1 Points
  • 16:40:36, 22 January

Gary Johnson has two kids and still managed to climb six of the Seven Summits. Although I certainly understand the trepidation of undertaking such a thing when children are little, there's no absolute rule that says you can't do things like this while still having kids.

  • [-]
  • nigglereddit
  • 1 Points
  • 16:48:18, 22 January

No offence, but even Everest is a beginner's wander compared to K2. There's a good reason why it's called the killer mountain.

  • [-]
  • vortican
  • 1 Points
  • 16:54:47, 22 January

So, you would climb Everest despite having kids?

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 15:14:40, 22 January

Thanks man.

  • [-]
  • pinkiesmiles
  • 8 Points
  • 07:24:55, 22 January

This is tough. I guess we need to keep in mind the "might" bit. She's not set on changing her mind, but she sees her friends getting something she never wanted and feels a little jealous. Is the relationship worth throwing away because she might change her mind in 3 years time?

I think blackberrycat is right. You need to talk to her about this asap and figure out what you both want now at this point in your relationship. Could she live without kids and could you live with them. If you two ultimately disagree you need to find out soon. Like you said, her bioclock is ticking and it's unfair to tell her no in 3 years when you're financially stable and she's ready.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 15:13:17, 22 January

It's definitely not worth throwing away the relationship for. I'm with her for better or worse. If having a kid becomes something she absolutely truly wants, then a kid we will have, and I will make the best of the situation and be the best dad I can be. It's not that I hate kids or wouldn't love my child. I'm just not exactly keen on the idea right now of changing our life. But I would never resent her or the kid for it, if that day ever comes. I'm just going to get there kicking and screaming haha.

  • [-]
  • Willowtree213
  • 12 Points
  • 05:26:08, 22 January

Well, don't have kids just because you feel you should or just to appease her.

Before formally deciding whether or not to have kids after all, encourage her to spend time with her friends babies. Have her babysit your nephew. Whatever. It's very easy get caught up in the romantic "oh you're glowing!" And "look at these adorable things I got for the baby!" Having a baby is not romantic. Setting your life to revolve around said baby is even less romantic. I consider having kids to be a great joy, but my husband and I always saw ourselves as future parents.

Make an informed decision. It's very easy to get swept up in what's going on in your friends lives. She's seeing a lot of baby crazy and that has got her thinking. She hasn't "decided" yet, I don't think, so sit down and have an honest discussion about it.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 15:14:04, 22 January

You nailed it exactly. That is precisely what is going on. Maybe she needs to change a diaper or two haha.

  • [-]
  • panic_bread
  • 4 Points
  • 15:21:24, 22 January

You seem to be dismissing her feelings. You've been together since you were teenagers, so it's unreasonable to expect her to have made concrete decisions that will hold for the rest of her life. It could be that she truly and legitimately wants kids now. As much as she shouldn't try to change your mind, you shouldn't try to change hers either. You might have to split up over this and find partners who are more suitable to each of you. Because there can be no compromise on an issue like this and one of you could end up living a life of regret and resentment.

  • [-]
  • TenaciousPoo
  • 23 Points
  • 05:50:33, 22 January

You need to be honest with her right now. She needs to make the choice right now whether she wants to stay with you and be child-free or divorce and have some chance to have a kid. The 30s are either the decade of waning fertility or you don't want to have a 20 year old when your 60. You cannot be selfish and wait and see how she feels in a few years. You will definitely rob her of any chance of having a kid then. Being a mother is HUGE for a woman. If she really does want kids then not having one could possible be a huge loss. She is her own being with her own life to fulfill. It is incredibly selfish to alter her life for your own benefit.

  • [-]
  • dripless_cactus
  • 9 Points
  • 15:13:48, 22 January

>Being a mother is HUGE for ~~a~~ some women.

Sure there's a biological element that drives many women to want children, but not all women have this need. Some women who want children should also be able to see the benefit of not having children and will be content with that. Also I don't see that OP is trying to alter her life - she is the one who has changed her mind.

This is a tough problem, as there is really no compromise to make. You either have children or you don't, stay together or don't. Whatever the case, someone is going to "lose."

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 3 Points
  • 15:02:24, 22 January

We had a very long talk about this all last night. She's not interested in having a kid right now anyway. It was essentially her saying, "Maybe somewhere down the road in 5 or more years." She agrees that we're not where she'd like us to be in life to raise a kid. We're financially stable, but not so much so that a kid wouldn't wreak havoc on our money. We're both constantly busy with our careers, etc. etc. "Waiting to see how she feels in a few years" is something she wants to do, not me.

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding this as a she-wants-kids-right-now thing. Really all it is is me saying that kids are entirely off the table and her saying maybe somewhere down the road, we can consider it. That's all.

  • [-]
  • snsv
  • 7 Points
  • 15:16:49, 22 January

there is also the fact to consider that the longer you wait, the higher chances of birth abnormalities. lots of rough decisions to be made here.

You seem to be very level-headed though and it sounds like you are well equipped to tackle whatever she decides.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 2 Points
  • 15:39:33, 22 January

Thanks. I think we'll be okay, it's not a terrible situation yet, just something we're having to think about and talk about.

  • [-]
  • RememberYourPass
  • 17 Points
  • 09:42:11, 22 January

Not trying to convince you to have kids or not to have kids. But, tbh man, you have gone ahead and described parenthood as a genuine hell and the other option as paradise.

I think you might wanna have a more nuanced view of both. You're basically portraying parenthood like you're a single mom of like 8 kids haha. You can still do fun stuff when you have kids (I don't have any of my own, but know people that do do stuff like that, esp. older people with stable lives, not so much early 20 somethings).

I don't know, I'm not trying to convince you to have kids. Obviously, I don't care what you do. All I'm saying is you might wanna look at it more nuanced, because you're painting an unfair picture of both sides.

  • [-]
  • kazielle
  • 4 Points
  • 11:08:34, 22 January

Ahaha yeah, that was my reaction to the OP's post as well. Life doesn't quite work the way he thinks it does...

  • [-]
  • eisforennui
  • 4 Points
  • 13:11:33, 22 January

i'm sorry, this has to be crazy difficult. :(

  • [-]
  • noisyparker
  • 2 Points
  • 14:31:20, 22 January

Yeah, that is a tough one. Basing it on complaints that focus on what they are like in "the first year or two" is BS, but I assume that is just you letting off steam. The fact is, having kids means a big change in focus in the relationship, and that is a not a thing that is inherently good or bad.

Right now you just have each other to please, and that is pretty mellow and uncomplicated... ideally it is "the perfect little married life," as you described it. Once you have kids, things will inevitably revolve around them, since you are responsible for their development and there are interesting things to see and learn... ideally that is "the perfect little parent life."

Anyway, if you are still in a place where raising a child with her is a complete nonstarter for you, you need to be very clear on that to her. It would be best, for both of you, for her to understand that she would have to look for someone else if she wants to raise a child.

  • [-]
  • kampamaneetti
  • 2 Points
  • 14:35:51, 22 January

What ever you do, do not have kids with her if you do not want them. It will destroy your relationship through resentment, and your personal life plans. Not only that, but it is not right to bring a child into this world if he or she is unwanted. You may love them once they're born, but you will always regret having them. There are way too many unwanted children in this world to begin with.

I would suggest to her to do some volunteering with children. If she doesn't have the time or energy to do that then she certainly won't later with her own. If she does manage to make time and enjoy it then it's a win for her and a win for the children who's lives she touches.

It's probably just a phase. I suggest giving her a lot more attention, she might be craving that without realising it. Pregnant women get a ton of attention from their significant others and pretty much everyone.

  • [-]
  • ShibaShoes
  • 2 Points
  • 16:49:36, 22 January

Don't do it. We were in a similar situation, mid thirties good job, house, pets. She decided that it was now or never and dropped a major guilt trip on me, so we had a child. Now, one year later, getting a divorce. See, she wasn't really all that interested in the work involved in having a child, just possessing a child. I ended up holding the bag. Someone usually does I know but be really clear what everyone's role would be.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 16:53:04, 22 January

Damn, sorry to hear that man, that sucks.

  • [-]
  • technologyneed
  • 10 Points
  • 03:30:19, 22 January

/r/childfree has some great responses to this same type of situation

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 16 Points
  • 03:31:51, 22 January

There really is a subreddit for everything...

  • [-]
  • kitsandkats
  • 17 Points
  • 10:18:27, 22 January

Don't go to /r/childfree for advice, OP. Not only do many of the submitters hate children and parents (they'll claim they don't when this is pointed out, but just look at the language they use), but you'll only be further put off the idea of parenthood by exaggerated stories about terrible kids and 'breeders'.

If you really don't want to have a child, and you are totally sure, you need to sit with your wife and tell her that if she wants a child so desperately, she needs to move on and find someone else who wants them too.

I will tell you one thing, though - children do not ruin your life, especially at your age. Children are not inconveniences, and they aren't just poop machines that scream constantly (that part is pretty short-lived, and is honestly not as bad as you think... they progress so much during that stage that you're distracted by these amazing developments). They're people, and you get to help them grow and become the best they can be.

But hey, don't take my word for it - I'm biased, because I'm a mother who is happier with her life than she ever was before. I sure wasn't at first... my pregnancy was unplanned, it was stressful, and I had nights after my daughter was born where I sat and cried and thought oh God, I can't do this, it's too much! But that passed, rapidly. I'm amazed at how good I feel, especially with so many people telling me so many negative things.

Good luck in whatever you decide OP, I feel for you having to make these decisions.

  • [-]
  • Clorox43
  • 8 Points
  • 15:00:21, 22 January

Just because motherhood worked out for you doesn't mean it works out for everyone. There are plenty of parents who absolutely regret having children.

One of the most annoying things about not wanting kids is being told that your feelings are invalid and you should have one anyway.

OP, do not heed to the wishes of your wife. Similarly, do not try to keep her in the marriage if she truly wants kids. You will both resent the other person.

  • [-]
  • kitsandkats
  • 2 Points
  • 15:11:16, 22 January

I never said his feelings were invalid, nor did I say he should definitely have kids. I was just offering a more positive perspective.

I understand there are people who regret having children - my father was one of them. I'm not part of the 'kids are the meaning of life' brigade. I just think OP should seriously think about what he wants, and as I said in the comment you replied to, if he truly does not want kids and his wife definitely does, he should let his wife move on.

  • [-]
  • miss_trixie
  • 1 Points
  • 17:12:53, 22 January

> I just think OP should seriously think about what he wants

from everything he has written he HAS seriously thought about what he wants.

  • [-]
  • mwilke
  • 6 Points
  • 14:26:06, 22 January

"don't take biased advice from /r/childfree - take my biased advice instead!"

  • [-]
  • durtydirtbag
  • 5 Points
  • 10:24:24, 22 January

If someone truly doesn't want kids (sounds like the case with OP), you can't convince them just because you love being a parent and assume everyone else will. Also, you can be child free without hating children so please don't exaggerate to get your point across.

And about /r/childfree OP, there can be douche bags just like in every subreddit but its definitely worth a look. Especially if you'd like to see how relationships turned out after one partner changed their mind.

  • [-]
  • kitsandkats
  • 4 Points
  • 10:31:06, 22 January

I wasn't trying to convince him. I was providing a perspective that wasn't doom-and-gloom. I stated my bias. :)

Edit: I just want to say that I also did not say you can't be child free without hating kids. I just think that subreddit attracts people who do hate kids, and have come to this conclusion by looking at the posts they make and the language they use. I'm not exaggerating, anyone can read it for themselves. I also did not assume everyone would love being a parent - I know some people regret having kids even after planning them, and that's a damn shame.

  • [-]
  • foshrox
  • 6 Points
  • 12:23:13, 22 January

Im with you, im on the fence about kids and went to /r childfree and it really is full of parent/child haters. All the stupid memes about how great life without kids is and the defensive responses about why they choose to have no kids makes it kind of a hostile sub for people seeking answers.

  • [-]
  • daisydelafuente
  • 3 Points
  • 15:23:29, 22 January

Not really. I've seen posts about people who were in the same exact situation as OP, and got great advice. There are people who are parents that comment frequently.

  • [-]
  • kitsandkats
  • 1 Points
  • 13:50:44, 22 January

You're better off having an open discussion with people who have had kids (at various stages in their lives), or older people that have gone through life and had no children.

I hate to say it, but people in their teens/twenties stating they definitely don't want children and will never ever change their minds can't possibly know that for sure. I'M in my twenties, so I'm not looking at the concept and thinking "Oh, these young people, they'll change their minds!" - I just think that you really can't be sure what will happen in your life at that stage.

Sure, a good chunk of them (maybe even most of them) will go on not to have kids and be pleased with their choice, and that's totally cool. But the younger people posting on /r/childfree about how they will never have kids, they hate kids (especially ones that dare go out in public and act like... well, children), and are allegedly 'persecuted' (I've actually seen it stated that they are 'persecuted', what is that all about) for that choice? They aren't the ones to go to for advice about whether to have kids or not. Just like those who think having children is compulsory and the true meaning of life are not the best people to ask, either. It's about a balanced perspective.

  • [-]
  • foshrox
  • 0 Points
  • 14:16:25, 22 January

Im 24 and I look at them and shake my head a little because they are so young and making bold statements about how they will never have kids and never want to, like you said tho some will and some won't but its not a decision you really make at that age. I dont want kids until im 30 and even then im not sure if I want them at all. Its not a decision I make lightly though because ultimately having or not having kids could be the biggest mistake in my entire life.

  • [-]
  • kitsandkats
  • 0 Points
  • 14:29:12, 22 January

I don't want to offend anyone, I just feel that it's so hard to be sure so young. I knew I wanted kids at some point ever since I was about 20, and I'm glad it happened when it did, so I guess I'm lucky there.

It's not the personal declarations that are so bad about that subreddit - it's the hatred. Why so much hate for those who choose a different path? And hating the kids themselves for not having adult levels of self-control and social understanding? Children are people, too. We were all children once. Would they refer to their own parents as 'breeders' and wish to have never been born?

  • [-]
  • technologyneed
  • 2 Points
  • 03:33:09, 22 January

I know right? Some of them are down right disturbing though.

  • [-]
  • DeviacZen
  • -4 Points
  • 04:18:33, 22 January

such as /r/incest?

  • [-]
  • technologyneed
  • 4 Points
  • 04:44:10, 22 January

I'm guessing some of the posts on /r/incest are made up.

I'm talking about the videos on /r/sexwithdogs and the pictures on /r/selfharmpics. That some nightmare material right there.

  • [-]
  • sadcrocodile
  • 20 Points
  • 06:11:46, 22 January

Aaand those are links which shall remain blissfully blue for me, thank you very much.

  • [-]
  • technologyneed
  • 1 Points
  • 14:07:08, 22 January

A smart chap you are.

  • [-]
  • valiantdistraction
  • 5 Points
  • 08:47:47, 22 January

Apparently I have FINALLY learned the lesson about not clicking, because I did not and will not click on any of those links.

  • [-]
  • technologyneed
  • 1 Points
  • 14:06:52, 22 January

I have yet to learn that lesson and I regret it every single time.

  • [-]
  • hansSA
  • 5 Points
  • 13:16:22, 22 January

That's like recommending /r/TheRedPill for dating advice or asking /r/deadbedrooms for suggestions on how to spice up your love life.

  • [-]
  • technologyneed
  • 2 Points
  • 14:06:06, 22 January

I figured OP could take want they wanted and leave the rest.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 8 Points
  • 09:18:52, 22 January

I just had a look at that, and wow, those guys really seem to be second only to /r/atheism in wanting to make a big deal out of a personal choice that most other people couldn't give two shits about.

  • [-]
  • mwilke
  • 8 Points
  • 14:28:11, 22 January

It's a "venting" subreddit - if you get piled on by everyone in your life for making that decision, you need a place to blow off some steam sometimes.

  • [-]
  • ZeroBugBounce
  • 11 Points
  • 09:38:54, 22 January

It's a circlejerk style of subreddit, not meant in a pejorative way. A place for them to let loose on that topic. Though some of it seems kind of negative, for sure.

  • [-]
  • east_side_sunsets
  • 0 Points
  • 09:27:25, 22 January

No, don't you understand, it's because they're so much more enlightened than the rest of us "breeders" that they have to make such a massive fucking deal out of it… /s

  • [-]
  • technologyneed
  • 0 Points
  • 14:06:32, 22 January

They're pretty serious over there.

  • [-]
  • mspazz
  • 10 Points
  • 07:06:14, 22 January

I hate kids. I love my own. Totally different than anyone else's kids.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • -5 Points
  • 07:26:15, 22 January

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 16 Points
  • 09:20:22, 22 January

Naah, it's more of a matter of the fact that we're genetically programmed to feel differently about our own children versus anyone else's.

  • [-]
  • kitsandkats
  • 0 Points
  • 10:20:16, 22 January

But I love everyone else's kids as well as my kid, am I strange? Kids are awesome.

  • [-]
  • AnneNeville
  • 5 Points
  • 12:51:27, 22 January

Some people really like kids and babies in general. Others don't care for random kids but really adore their own. Others just don't like/want them at all.

  • [-]
  • zaneluke
  • 3 Points
  • 09:56:42, 22 January

I would stick to your guns. Why? If it comes down to it and it ruins your marriage you will be a single guy with no kids and no child support in his mid 30s.

  • [-]
  • Phosphate-3
  • 2 Points
  • 10:42:50, 22 January

Well you have to think of it this way. You guys made the agreement while you were young (one of the down falls of marrying your high school sweet heart). You guys have already been through so many changes together. Personality changes and life changes. This is just another change she is going through. Is it a change you can agree to? Is it a change you can support? If you can bare with it, will you be able to love the child and be a father? If not you may come to an end. This is one of those huge "make it or break it" situations. If she wants a child and you do not, it's likely going to put a huge strain on your relationship, one it likely won't survive. You are not wrong for not wanting kids, by any means. They are not for everyone, but if your wife wants one that badly, you may need to let her go. She will never be satisfied with her life if she does not have one. On the other hand, if you have one to keep her, you will lose satisfaction in your life. I wish you good luck, and I hope you and her can figure out where to go from here.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 15:34:28, 22 January

Thanks, that was really well-put.

  • [-]
  • Dh921
  • 2 Points
  • 12:50:13, 22 January

Just wait until her friends have toddlers....she might decide she doesn't want them.

And in the meantime, actually go live that life you guts joke about. Make sure she knows what you'll be giving up.

  • [-]
  • ImAJerkButImRight
  • -6 Points
  • 05:23:41, 22 January

r/relationships isn't going to like me saying this, but you better go get a vasectomy right fucking now or I suspect you'll have a little "happy accident" in the coming years.

  • [-]
  • daboblin
  • 13 Points
  • 12:46:27, 22 January

Do not do this without discussing it with your partner. That is not OK.

  • [-]
  • ImAJerkButImRight
  • -8 Points
  • 12:50:16, 22 January

Yeah, how dare he exercise his reproductive rights.

Don't listen to this bullshit, OP. There is practically a whole subculture of women who think its okay to give their man a little "nudge" into fatherhood by "forgetting" their birth control.

  • [-]
  • daboblin
  • 7 Points
  • 12:58:18, 22 January

This isn't about reproductive rights, it's about being honest with your partner. And FWIW, I'm a dude.

  • [-]
  • ImAJerkButImRight
  • -6 Points
  • 13:54:51, 22 January

That's right, OP. Listen to this guy.

I mean, nevermind that if she gets pregnant everyone will tell you that she can do whatever she wants (abortion, keep it, whatever) and you get fuck-all of a say in it and too bad if you don't like that. If you want to exercise the same reproductive rights on your own body you better by God ask your wife's permission first.

Aren't double standards and gynocentrism awesome?

  • [-]
  • mwilke
  • 5 Points
  • 14:30:25, 22 January

I don't think anyone here would say that a woman should get her tubes tied without at least giving her husband a heads-up - not because people need to ask permission, but because that's what you do in a healthy relationship, you talk about important decisions together.

I am childfree and so is my husband, but if I came home to find him with a bag of frozen peas on his taint and no prior warning, I'd be upset and confused that he wouldn't trust me enough to talk about it beforehand.

  • [-]
  • ImAJerkButImRight
  • -5 Points
  • 14:40:37, 22 January

I don't want to interrupt the Girl Power circle jerk that's brewing here, but I never actually said he shouldn't tell her before he does it.

I just object to the idea that needs her permission. He doesn't. It's not her decision.

His body, his choice. Right ladies?

  • [-]
  • mwilke
  • 4 Points
  • 14:43:59, 22 January

I think you're having an argument that nobody else is having - I don't see anyone saying he needs her permission.

  • [-]
  • ImAJerkButImRight
  • -3 Points
  • 15:10:28, 22 January

No, I'm not.

Someone suggested he needs to have a "discussion" with her about it first. "Discussion" indicates it's open for debate.

It shouldn't be. It's his body, his choice.

But yes, he should tell her before he does it. Right after he makes the appointment to have it done and he's walking out the door.

  • [-]
  • Giselemarie
  • 2 Points
  • 14:31:09, 22 January

How would you feel if the situation was turned and she permanently sterilized herself or aborted his baby without consent. I feel like your tune would change.

  • [-]
  • ImAJerkButImRight
  • -1 Points
  • 14:37:45, 22 January

Not the same, because he can't get "accidentally" pregnant with her baby.

Nobody should have to trust their reproduction or lack thereof to someone else. If they do, they're a fool.

  • [-]
  • valiantdistraction
  • 2 Points
  • 08:52:11, 22 January

This was exactly what I thought too. Or, well, not exactly. I wondered why he didn't already have a vasectomy if he's never wanted kids. I thought the idea was that as soon as you have however many kids you want, you get snipped. If he wants no kids, nothing is stopping him.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 15:19:12, 22 January

Not going to happen for several reasons:

  • my wife had an IUD put in a few years ago and still has a year or more left on that still being active.

  • even still, I always pull out (she's a swallower)

  • my wife's not a cunt and would never do something like that.

You'reAJerkAndYou'reWrong

  • [-]
  • ImAJerkButImRight
  • -1 Points
  • 15:55:51, 22 January

Yeah, I know, your wife is a special snowflake and would never ever do that to you.

Said by every guy who had this done to them before their wife's biological clock overrode their common sense.

Get snipped. Putting your reproductive capabilities in someone else's hands is stupid.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 16:29:48, 22 January

You've been burned before, huh? Something happened to you so now all women are evil bitches? Am I getting close?

  • [-]
  • a4bh3
  • -19 Points
  • 04:47:13, 22 January

>Our joke has kind of always been that while all our other friends started having kids and stopped having lives, we were going to still be the fun couple who were able to go on vacations and buy frivolous things, or drop everything on the spur of the moment and go spend a weekend away somewhere and shit like that. We were going to be the old people in the prescription drug commercials jogging along the beach instead of the frazzled parent trying to make sure our kid doesn't miss the bus while we get ready for work.

Another joke will be that your corpse will be found 4 weeks after you're dead only because your neighbors thought they should call the cops for a wellness call after your property started looking like shit because you had no family checking in on you.

I'm by no means judging your decision or your wife's, and I sympathize with the situation you're in. But you're making it seem that life without kids is some sort of Matrix induced utopia and people with kids are living some nightmare. I don't have kids myself, but I don't think that kids in of themselves are so antithetical to living life.

  • [-]
  • nigglereddit
  • 7 Points
  • 09:26:04, 22 January

Life with kids isn't fun and games either.

Want to know a secret? You probably won't ever hear this from anyone else, but I think you should know: lots of people really regret having kids.

  • [-]
  • a4bh3
  • 5 Points
  • 12:19:13, 22 January

I'm just pointing out that people seem so sure and self-righteous in their decisions to have or not have kids that it makes them seem incredibly arrogant. Chances are, OP's life won't be a movie--or an Ensure commercial--whether he has or doesn't have kids. And thank god for that. Life is just a bit more interesting than anything coming out of the bowels of Hollywood or a TV studio.

Isn't it more respectful to at least consider your wife's possible change of heart and talk with her about that rather than stubbornly refuse to even attempt to have OP's mind changed?

  • [-]
  • kitsandkats
  • 4 Points
  • 10:21:09, 22 January

And lots of people don't regret it, what's your point?

  • [-]
  • aswecollide
  • 0 Points
  • 14:15:38, 22 January

That's fine you don't want kids, you shouldn't bring a child you don't want into the world. That said, your perception of having a child is ridiculous and how a 5 year old perceives a new baby sibling. Definitely not trying to talk you into kids, though.

If she really wants a kid, and you really don't then maybe you're not as compatible as you once were. This is the kind of disagreement that breeds huge resentment. There is no compromise. You should start having some serious conversations sooner rather than later.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 15:31:47, 22 January

I've got friends and family who have kids. I'm not trying to say that it's a terrible thing that brings no happiness. Obviously, they love their kids and they bring them lots of joy....but try to tell me that anything I posted in my original post isn't true? Because I've witnessed it all. I've seen my nephew shit his diaper so hard that he was basically coated from poo from navel to knees and it smelled so bad I had to leave the room while parents laughed at me. I've called them to go see a movie on Friday night. Sorry, no babysitter. I've invited them to come over for dinner. "Sorry, baby needs to be in bed by 7 and we're exhausted anyway..." I've gone out to eat with them at a restaurant and watched as they tried (with far more patience than I have) to get this baby to stop screaming his head off at the table. So on and so forth.

Like I said, I'm not trying to shit-talk parenthood. I know it has its rewards for people. But "my perception" isn't wrong. I know those things are only the negatives and I know they aren't the entirety of parenthood, but they are a part of it. And they're a part of it that I have no interest in partaking in, no matter what the rewards may be otherwise.

  • [-]
  • vortican
  • 1 Points
  • 16:35:55, 22 January

Interesting... do you have this philosophy about other parts of your life? For example, if you could invest $10,000 now and live as a pauper for a couple of years in order to get $1,000,000 down the road, would you do it?

Another analogy; surely you have experienced heartbreak (perhaps even with your wife) or injury from people who are in your lives? They have hurt you but you still associate with them. Is that not the case?

Everything you've written about parenting is true and parents wish they didn't have to deal with those issues but most would certainly never consider those negatives to outweigh the positives that children can bring to a relationship. I don't think anyone can know how they will feel about being a parent until they actually are one, so it does seem to be close-minded to foreclose any possibility of having children simply because they require work and complicate your life.

But hey, to each their own. I know only that the parents I know do not understand the decision to cheat one's self of the incredible rewarding experience of parenthood just because young children are messy.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 16:50:06, 22 January

It's not a set "philosophy" that I apply to other things. Every situation is different. I'm glad that you think parenthood is such a rewarding experience that it makes the negatives worth it, and there are obviously a lot of parents who feel that way. But as others have pointed out in this thread, there are a lot of people who regret having kids, even if they love them. I have no desire to find out I'm one of those people, since I suspect I probably would be. Especially since we would be forced to change a lot of things about the way we live now, and the life we have now is great. I don't want to change that.

  • [-]
  • vortican
  • 1 Points
  • 17:00:25, 22 January

So basically it reads like (from other comments you've made in this thread) that you're cool with your life now and it's more about that you don't want it to change. That's understandable; when you got a good thing going, why ruin it? I think that you'll find a lot more people who believe that having kids, even though they dramatically change your life, improve it, than people who will tell you that it diminished it.

I also don't think it's fair to say, no matter your outlook on children or parenting, that many people regret having kids. They may feel they have missed out on chances or experiences (hell, just about everyone feels that way about something) but if you were to ask them if they could trade their kids in or sell them or adopt them out or whatever, I bet you wouldn't find many takers.

Just throwing that out there because I don't think that society at large is at 50/50 in terms of how positively kids affect your life. I'd stack the odds a great bit higher in favor of being parents, if that matters at all to you.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 1 Points
  • 17:09:51, 22 January

I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to be argumentative about it, But I know myself pretty well and I've always believed that kids just aren't for me. Who knows, maybe I'd have one someday and it turns out I was wrong and I'd regret not having done it sooner. But I don't feel like that's a fair risk to take when it comes to bringing another life in this world. It's not fair to my wife or the child. That seems like too big of a decision to leave up to, "Well, maybe it won't be that bad..."

  • [-]
  • toldyaso
  • -55 Points
  • 03:48:10, 22 January

Dude, let me let you in on a little secret...

Just about every fucking guy in the world tells himself when he's 23 that he doesn't want kids, doesn't like them, and would prefer to live the fun selfish bastard lifestyle. Then those guys get married, and one day their wife wakes up and tells them they're going to have kids, then the guy starts crying and bellyaching, and then 9 times out of 10 they end up having kids anyway, and by the time you're fifty or so, you'll look back at your life and realize that it doesn't really fucking matter what you say when you're 23.

If she's saying it's still a few years away, forget about it for now. Relax.

When the time comes, if she does insist that she wants kids, you'll give in and do what she wants, no matter what bravado or propaganda you fill your head with now. You'll cave and you'll do what she wants, and one day, if that's how things go, you'll thank her for it because you'll see that she was right.

  • [-]
  • Nievvein
  • 30 Points
  • 04:04:23, 22 January

It is not selfish to not have kids.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 19 Points
  • 03:49:44, 22 January

I think you may have misread the ages. We're not 23. I'm 31 and she's 30....

  • [-]
  • toldyaso
  • -50 Points
  • 03:50:41, 22 January

I was using 23 as a random example. The logic still holds true.

  • [-]
  • CompanionCone
  • 11 Points
  • 07:00:30, 22 January

No it does not. Most people know pretty well what they want out of life by the time they hit their thirties. On top of that, a 31 year old woman does not have all the time in the world to decide whether she wants kids or not. Fertility wanes fast in your 30's.

  • [-]
  • phish
  • 26 Points
  • 04:34:54, 22 January

Nope. 31 and I want a kid even less now than at 23. Don't generalise, some of us just really dislike kids.

  • [-]
  • CoolWhip79
  • 11 Points
  • 05:51:20, 22 January

I'm 24 and I don't want kids either and that's not going to change. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and while I'm at it, some people just shouldn't have kids.

  • [-]
  • 901ninja
  • 27 Points
  • 03:59:42, 22 January

I'm not sure it does. At 23, you're still young and don't really know what you want out of life. I'm nearly a decade beyond that. I'm not a kid fresh out of college trying to sort life out.

  • [-]
  • mwilke
  • 5 Points
  • 14:32:59, 22 January

Right, there are definitely not any women who don't want children.

  • [-]
  • genevravan
  • -13 Points
  • 07:43:24, 22 January

Stupid fucking bastards like you are the reason the world sucks. Totally overpopulated? 7 billion people in the world? I know! I should have kids even though I don't want to.

Don't have kids because you "give in". Fuck that. That's disgusting. People should only have kids because they actually want them.

Just fuck the hell off, you stupid piece of absolute shit. Let's just let people who want to have kids do that, and leave everyone else alone.

Selfish bastard route? What is wrong with you? What's not selfish is not bringing another miserable person into the world to burn up fossil fuels and fill up a bag of trash every other day.

Go rot.

  • [-]
  • Localidiot
  • 4 Points
  • 13:07:16, 22 January

You seem really pleasant.