Why do we consider sex as ultra-important and some kind of ridiculous rite of passage? (self.AskMen)

AskMen

11 ups - 5 downs = 6 votes

I'm a 21 year old virgin. I've had two relationships, neither of which have developed to the point of me actually having any sex. As far as this is concerned, I'm really not at all surprised. I'm overwhelming, overweight, and an übermensch of geeks and nerds everywhere (seriously, D&D, science facebook posts, and pokemon4lyf. I even grow a disgusting neckbeard, as a result of being blonde).

That's not what I'm here to talk about, though.

Being a virgin doesn't bother me at all. The fact that men do some kind of virgin shaming bullshit, not unlike slut shaming for women, strikes me as genuinely pathetic of our entire gender. As if someone's self worth should be legitimately generated from their ability, or lack thereof, to stick their dick into somebody. That's just fucking ridiculous. Yet, we still do it! Why do we do that to people? For a long time, I WAS a little ashamed of my situation, but that changed when I stopped and thought "holy crap of all the stupid fucking things to get upset about." I don't see why I should care if women don't like me. I don't see why we should antagonize other men for that. Someone wanna tell me why we should?

60 comments submitted at 08:42:26 on Jan 31, 2014 by blafls

  • [-]
  • dangertime
  • 11 Points
  • 08:49:51, 31 January

>Being a virgin doesn't bother me at all.

That's good. Stick with that.

  • [-]
  • flynavy88
  • 7 Points
  • 12:53:24, 31 January

Seriously OP

If it doesn't bother you, then stick with it

If it does, then change something about it instead of making posts online trying to rationalize why you disagree and how society is wrong

  • [-]
  • n0ggy
  • 11 Points
  • 09:02:08, 31 January

The sex as itself is quite irrelevant, but in people’s mind, it represents the ultimate proof that you got a girl’s interest and that you kept that girl.

As a man, to get a girl in a modern western society, you have to have one or several of the following qualities: charming, financially successful, charismatic, attractive, cultivated, confident, etc.

Therefore, a virgin man is seen, by most people, as a person who doesn’t have any of these qualities.

This is obviously wrong, because in truth the only qualities you need to get a girlfriend is to just be a normal person and ask them out until one of them is willing to be your girlfriend.

But I did not make the rules. I’m just explaining, not justifying.

Now, the question you need to ask yourself is: Do you truly do not care? (In that case, keep on going what you’re doing) Or are you trying to convince yourself that you do not care?

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • -7 Points
  • 09:06:31, 31 January

Lol are you trying to armchair me?

I don't care. At least not about myself.

You know what I do care about, though?

I care about the 22 year old virgin somewhere in the United States who is holding a razor in one hand and contemplating his suicide, because he can't get laid. If you don't think that's a reality, then you're rather sadly deluded. Some of those gentlemen will end up killing themselves tonight, over something as stupid as this. That's what I care about.

  • [-]
  • n0ggy
  • 14 Points
  • 09:11:38, 31 January

Quite defensive aren't you?

You asked for an explanation, I gave it to you.

If you want to change the world, why don't you get your ass off your basement for a start? It's more efficient than acting like an aggressive bitter prick on the internet, or so I've heard.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 1 Points
  • 09:20:29, 31 January

I wanted to ask the men of reddit because reddit is a cesspool of all kinds of people from different age groups, ethnicities, and religious backgrounds. This makes it a great place to evaluate the source of discrimination, if only I can avoid the people that attribute my passions to some kind of internalized embitterment because I can't get my dick wet when I'm not in the shower.

  • [-]
  • n0ggy
  • 8 Points
  • 09:46:10, 31 January

Careful though, Reddit does not represent the whole population.You get plenty of types of persons, but it's not an accurate representation of society.

Also, armchair psychologist I know, but you seem way too aggressive and bitter for me to believe that you truly do not care about being a virgin.

I don't really buy the altruistic "what bothers me is that some guys may commit suicide" argument. Sorry.

  • [-]
  • weaponize
  • 2 Points
  • 14:12:42, 31 January

Bingo

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 0 Points
  • 09:54:23, 31 January

Also, yeah, Reddit does only represent the portions of the population who are really wired into the internet, and of those the right-wing types aren't frequent here. It is, however, a great place to start, because of how open discussions are here. On Facebook, people tend to hide more because of how public everything is. Here, it's nothing to make an anonymous fake account and start blazing about everything.

  • [-]
  • n0ggy
  • 1 Points
  • 10:06:50, 31 January

Mmh, though the karma system encourages people to give the most popular opinion to make sure that their voice is praised and heard.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 0 Points
  • 10:10:31, 31 January

Which is actually nice for evaluating trends in society, because it boils everything down to something everyone can understand, which lets you look at society as more of a cohesive whole rather than as a fluctuating variety of opinions, or at least a cohesive whole of Reddit. Which is centrist-left, typically younger, and often at least partially university educated. However, virgin-shaming is more common in left-wing society anyway, because they're the more sexually liberal variety.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • -2 Points
  • 09:50:54, 31 January

Lol.

Well, I guess you can believe whatever you want to believe. If I can't convince you that I'm not some fedorian crying about his neglected penis then that's your own stubborn case to deal with, not mine. But there are men out there who are contemplating suicide for this, and the discrimination that causes that is what I'm asking you about. This thread is just not about me.

I also really fail to see how I'm coming across as bitter at all. Aggressive, yeah. I'm fully aware that I'm an obnoxious asshole about this topic, it's the only way to get anything done anywhere. But definitely not bitter.

  • [-]
  • n0ggy
  • 5 Points
  • 10:41:00, 31 January

> Well, I guess you can believe whatever you want to believe. If I can't convince you that I'm not some fedorian crying about his neglected penis then that's your own stubborn case to deal with, not mine. But there are men out there who are contemplating suicide for this, and the discrimination that causes that is what I'm asking you about. This thread is just not about me.

Like I said, virgin-shaming is not just that in truth. Even if people weren’t making fun of you for it, they’d still find it ridicule to spend your life playing Pokemon, not taking care of your body, etc. It’s still wrong, but you just can’t change that.

I’m sorry, but the only options are either to grow a thicker skin, or become a more admirable person than they are as a payback.

> I also really fail to see how I'm coming across as bitter at all. Aggressive, yeah. I'm fully aware that I'm an obnoxious asshole about this topic, it's the only way to get anything done anywhere. But definitely not bitter.

I know bitterness when I see it, but it’s not my job to make you work on your introspection.

And I’m not sure being aggressive it the “only way to go”. It only helps alienating others and kills your chances of being heard by the others. Right now, I’m not really willing to have some empathy and hear you opinion because of it to be honest…

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 1 Points
  • 09:18:49, 31 January

Because it's quarter after three in the morning. I spend some of my time during the day, when everybody else is awake, making discussion groups about this very thing. I wanna go to a protest some time, but I'm afraid Canadians don't like getting outside during the winter. Our environment isn't friendly for long periods of outside with picket signs and banners screaming about discrimination to our government.

  • [-]
  • lonewolf18
  • 7 Points
  • 08:55:59, 31 January

Because for many people it is important. In the past it ment more then it does now on the facts of if you where having it you where either married or you were a whore. It also had religious connotations to it and the advancement of the human race. TO be manly ment you provided for your family and you made that said family, by fucking.

Fast forward to today where really anyone can get it if they have the means.

People are always going to find some way to shame eachother its a fact, sex is just one of the top ones because most of the % of the planet wants to have it its a basic human need. We as humans in a brains want to have sex for pleasure or for advancing the human race.

We should not hate but we do. Because we can. HUmans are not perfect we do life and then we die.

Since your a virgin (which is fine not hatting just stating) you dont know and other people who are hear about it almost everyday that they should be going out and getting it. HOnestly if you dont want to thats your choice for me sex is badass and i will always want to get it on but i don go about belittling people who have no interest in what i enjoy.

Look my man dont sweat it. Sex is not for everyone. But most humans we need people, we need that connection the sense of community we are social beings. I hope for your sake that you find someone that you can care for and will care for you back. If sex comes with that then be smart and be ready if not then so be it. Just dont hid in your room rolling d20s, eating cheetos and drinking monsters. Go live life the way you see fit though i wont stop you as long as thats what you want to do

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 3 Points
  • 09:04:18, 31 January

Dude, life to me IS chilling in my room rolling d20s and eating pizza.

I have just as much fun doing that as I do going out drinking on a good night. On lame nights at the bar I've actually left early to go play Dungeons and Dragons.

My lifestyle choices aside, this has nothing to do with that. Are we really just gonna sit back and say "well, this is what society wants"? Fuck that! Men don't need to shame each other over anything; over their favourite sport, band, and certainly not their sex lives. The lack of respect here is just unreal. Go look up /r/foreveralone or whatever. You'll see all kinds of virgin men literally stressing themselves to death over this shit. It's not fair. We can make a goddamn difference.

You're right, people hear every single day "go out and get laid!" it's in our media, in our internetz, and literally splashed all over our entire existence It's bullshit. It's not fair and it pre-sets an unrealistic ideal in a man's head; that he has to have sex to be manly. Or that being "manly" is even really a thing. I reckon a real man is one that simply does not give a fuck about who he is, he merely learns how to reconcile that with his activities and beliefs.

  • [-]
  • lonewolf18
  • 3 Points
  • 09:25:37, 31 January

Im not saying that you cant do that. Just dont do it for 80+ yrs alone and then die. Be that man you want to be and do worry about everyone else. its gonna happen but you just got to live above the influence.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 2 Points
  • 09:31:31, 31 January

I'm not sure I'm following you.

I don't think I can make this more clear. I don't care if I get laid before I die. I don't care if I never get married. I don't care if women consider me repulsive. I have found other means to give myself self-esteem.

Seriously man, I am the fat guy that dances on the stage at clubs in front of everybody and doesn't fear a damned thing. I'm really not in any short of confidence for anything. :P

But I know that other virgin men at my age are DEFINITELY not so lucky, and for those men, there is serious beef with society to be had.

  • [-]
  • lonewolf18
  • 4 Points
  • 09:50:53, 31 January

You can do what ever you want. Its your life. I just know that being alone for 80+ yrs is not living life to the fullest but if thats what you want to do then you go for it my man. You are correct though. some men are not like you. most men are not like u.

  • [-]
  • mepscom
  • 2 Points
  • 09:55:32, 31 January

Why beef with society? You sound complacent with being a fat virgin. That's totally cool. Others aren't so cool with it and are trying to change. Good for them.

All this you talk about all just goes on in people who haven't had sex yet minds... that society is out to put them down or make them look inferior or emasculate them or some shit. In reality, no one with a speck of maturity gives a fuck who's getting laid or not. That shit stopped mattering like sophomore year of high school

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • -2 Points
  • 10:03:30, 31 January

You are literally exactly the kind of person this thread is about. Like, to a "t".

Denying the discrimination and chalking it up to a victim complex. Yet you probably laugh at virgin jokes as much as the next guy.

Literally boggles my mind that you misunderstand so badly. It's not a self-perceived thing when virgins are literally surrounded by sex propaganda. No, it's absolutely not a direct thing, but that's probably what makes it so bad. If it was direct abuse, people could shoulder it off as everyone being an asshole. Now, they just feel like they're missing out on something awesome. You could try for a little perspective, you know.

  • [-]
  • Dajbman22
  • 1 Points
  • 16:05:40, 31 January

> It's not a self-perceived thing when virgins are literally surrounded by sex propaganda.

By sex propaganda, do you mean the fact that it is widely accepted that desiring sex is the normal and natural orientation for the vast majority of people? Nobody is saying you personally have to go out and have sex (unless you are complaining about not having it). We are just expressing our enjoyment of this activity.

What would make you happy? Do you want us "breeders" to stop "flaunting" our personal choices?

I am a non-virgin. Hath not a non-virgin eyes? Hath not a non-virgin hands, sex organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same whips and paddles, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a virgin is? If you jerk us, do we not come? If you tickle us, do we not laugh... and then come? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 1 Points
  • 16:22:04, 31 January

No, by "sex propaganda" I mean the ubiquitous belief that if you're not getting laid you're doing something wrong in your life.

The reality is that you're not, you're just not doing what needs to be done to get laid. I never said you couldn't enjoy sex, I said you shouldn't make virgin jokes and ostracize them as a bunch of freaks for it. Before you say you don't, let me lay a few things down for you.

The show 1 vs 100 actually had an episode that identified one of the people as "40 year old virgin". That was his only defining trait. It was the only thing anybody really cared about him.

Being a male virgin does change a bunch of things. Some of us are like this by choice. Those men suffer discrimination. Some of us are like this because of poor social skills. Those men suffer discrimination. Some of us are like me, we don't care about sex. Those men suffer discrimination. And it's all exactly the same kind of discrimination; you all seem to believe that we desperately want to have sex with every single fibre of our being and that we make sex out to be some kind of holy relic of masculinity. You have to realize that we don't and that the discrimination I am talking about is wrong.

  • [-]
  • mepscom
  • 5 Points
  • 10:14:32, 31 January

I don't laugh at virgin jokes. I haven't even heard a virgin joke since I was like 15. I've never encountered "virgin discrimination" in my life... that's not even remotely real. And what the hell is "sex propoganda"?

What am I misunderstanding? You're a virgin and want people to not care. I'm truthfully telling you they don't.

  • [-]
  • mashonem
  • 3 Points
  • 13:24:12, 31 January

> I haven't even heard a virgin joke since I was like 15. I've never encountered "virgin discrimination" in my life...

>You're a virgin and want people to not care. I'm truthfully telling you they don't.

If only we were all so lucky...

  • [-]
  • Fimbultyr
  • 6 Points
  • 14:13:25, 31 January

Because we have billions of years of evolution which have shaped us to want sex.

  • [-]
  • BigPeeOn
  • 4 Points
  • 14:26:07, 31 January

This is the answer I go with, too.

Sex is seen as a big deal (consciously or not) because it's how we reproduce, and successful reproduction is single goal evolution has pushed all life towards since the beginning.

It's treated like a big deal because, in a very real way, it's why we exist.

  • [-]
  • nigglereddit
  • 0 Points
  • 14:36:11, 31 January

> successful reproduction is single goal evolution has pushed all life towards since the beginning.

If this was true, homosexuality could not have evolved to be as common as it is.

  • [-]
  • BigPeeOn
  • 2 Points
  • 14:44:27, 31 January

False.

Additionally, you seem to think evolution is the only process involved in the development of species or their behaviors.

It isn't.

But, for evolution, the single goal is the survival of the species and--for us--that ultimately means successful reproductive sex.

Edit: A little newer but possibly a bit less reputable source.

  • [-]
  • nigglereddit
  • 2 Points
  • 15:31:55, 31 January

Well it's very easy to disprove your hypothesis: many species exist which have specifically evolved to destroy their own habitat, which kill their hosts or in many other ways (like homosexuality) make "successful reproductive sex" (or successful reproduction of other kinds) impossible.

This is extremely simple to prove further: if your claim was true then all evolved faculties should be predicated on, as you put it, "successful reproductive sex". The fact that many faculties exist which do not is very simple evidence that evolution does not have a "single goal". There are numerous faculties, including specifically sexual ones, which have no correlation at all with fertility or reproductive success. Your "single goal" hypothesis would render this completely impossible.

  • [-]
  • BigPeeOn
  • 1 Points
  • 16:06:38, 31 January

Please, point me to any academic or otherwise reputable source showing that to be the case.

  • [-]
  • Dajbman22
  • 1 Points
  • 16:14:24, 31 January

Evolution doesn't select for direct behaviors. Evolution selects for genetic predispositions towards certain drives which were advantageous in a specific context. When contexts change, sometimes the resulting behaviors are wildly different than what was initially sexually selected for. This is still treating things on an animalistic level. When you get to human behavior, which is mediated by complex social structures and abstract thinking, things can take wildly different paths outside of just straight natural selection.

That being said, the drive to reproduce in general is an inherent drive in basically all living creatures at the species-wide level. There will always be outliers within the population and variability at the level and target of this reproductive drive, some with more or less actual reproductive success for an individual, but it all comes from the same locus deep within our mammalian brain stems.

  • [-]
  • weaponize
  • 8 Points
  • 09:09:45, 31 January

Ready for down votes.

It's not about your ability to stick you dick in somebody, but rather the desire we all have as men to spread our seed, pass on our genes.

You sound like you're a man that's given up just because you've had two girls you can say were relationships, but didn't lead to anything sexual, while trying to sound like you've come to some kind of epiphany about how it's all over rated. No, you've just given up.

It really isn't about anyone else's obsession about sticking their dicks in someone, but yours. The reality is, you care, deep down inside, behind your new found non chalant attitude, you care a lot. Which is actually fine and normal.

You've said yourself that you're not exactly a looker, and your interests are quite narrow in terms of being of any interest to many women, maybe instead of lying to yourself about having the opposite sex find you desirable not being important, you should change those things that put you at a disadvantage, if it can be helped. Face it, if you aren't asexual, and I really don't think you are, it really does matter what the opposite sex thinks of you.

You're on a path of setting yourself up for failure, and you're going to wake up someday worse than you are today, and you're going to hate women, you're going to be anti-social, and you're really going to be one lonely son of a bitch who pretends he is just so different that no woman can understand his intricate mind, while stuffing your face with pizza every night and lurking online.

Change your attitude, it matters. Better yourself.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 2 Points
  • 09:15:15, 31 January

Bro, I never downvote people.

My sexual life is definitely not the most spectacular, and I really get that, but it doesn't matter what happens to me. I already made it clear that this thread isn't about me. It's about the men who haven't found security and autonomy in their lives, because they're not having sex.

I don't care much for what you have to say about me. I care about what you have to say about our societal discrimination of virgins.

  • [-]
  • weaponize
  • 3 Points
  • 09:21:52, 31 January

Ok.

Well I guess people can be dicks about stuff like that. And young men especially have things that make them feel more 'manly' if you will, that they'll boast about, or make fun of another for.

I think it's probably because we are competitive creatures when it comes to the mating game, and busting eachother's balls about it is also a way of bonding I guess?

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 2 Points
  • 09:27:51, 31 January

Yeah, but is it bonding if this kind of discussion genuinely hurts other people?

There is a thread on this very subreddit where a man described his late virginity as "a party everyone is going to, except for yourself. Then, you have to hear about how great the party is, and hear shit like "why didn't you go, man?!" from their friends, family, and co-workers. There's really no better way to feel like shit on this Earth."

I don't feel the same way because I've stopped seeing sex as a means of defining myself, but consider how important it is for men that still define themselves by sex, like many other men do. Consider how they must feel when every single male icon in any given media always gets the girl in the end, and if he doesn't, then he definitely gets laid at least once. How do you figure these men feel? It ruins their own gender-identity. If we recognized that this kind of thing is legitimately hurtful to people, I bet as a society we'd respect each other more. Discrimination blows no matter who is doing it and to whom they are doing it to and for whatever reason it happens to exist. As such, it should all be treated the same: kicked to the curb.

Edit: This is of course, completely disregarding the fact that we're all taught that we SHOULD define ourselves by sex thanks to our ridiculous, stereotyping media.

  • [-]
  • weaponize
  • 3 Points
  • 09:40:28, 31 January

Well. So what if it hurts their feelings? I mean life isn't all lovey dovey, and there is going to be hell of a lot more disappointments along the way.

If you're going to label your buddies busting your balls for not getting laid as discrimination and get your tits all knotted up, boy, do I have bad news for you, it'll just get worse from here.

Listen, life isn't always fair, and it certainly doesn't give a shit about your feelings, putting your hurt feelings on a pedestal and calling it discrimination doesn't change the fact that you just don't like being made fun of.

Everyone gets made fun of, for something, at some point in their lives. You know what they do? Suck it up and deal with it.

No, I'm not saying because you're a man you can't feel. I'm saying shitty things will happen, or people will make you feel shitty, but you can't always just see that as an opportunity to wallow in self pity and cry foul.

In this context, about guys busting eachother's balls about not getting laid, honestly, it's pretty mild.

You'll realize how stupid it is once you get laid, buddy. Like someone else said, once you take the sex off the pedestal, your buddies opinions about your sex life become less and less relevant, immature and it won't bother you at all.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 0 Points
  • 09:46:39, 31 January

It's almost like you forget that people actually kill themselves over this.

You know what discrimination is? It's a form of abuse where society as a whole makes an individual feel awful for being who they are and makes them blame themselves for their situation.

If you're going to feed me "boohoo life is tough" bullshit, I'm going to get annoyed. Life is tough like that because people refuse to do anything about it. Not because there's nothing to be done and we all just have to "suck it up". I already KNOW how stupid it is, but I know that there are others who don't know how stupid it is. Those people are at risk.

I'd also appreciate it if you didn't treat me like I was some kind of desperate guy who is twitching because he can't stick his dick into someone. Like, have I not made it clear enough yet? Really man, I know that the reason guys bust each other's balls is because they want to make jokes in bad taste, but I also know that those comments are legitimately harmful to some people, and deliberately causing harm, while knowing what it does to guys, is just being an unreasonable dickhead.

  • [-]
  • weaponize
  • 4 Points
  • 14:26:07, 31 January

>You know what discrimination is? It's a form of abuse where society as a whole makes an individual feel awful for being who they are and makes them blame themselves for their situation.

Calm your tits, drama queen. Somebody making fun of you for being a virgin is because you have some immature friends who might be Assholes, or they could be just your buddies busting your balls. It's not some epidemic like you're pretending it to be.

>If you're going to feed me "boohoo life is tough" bullshit, I'm going to get annoyed. Life is tough like that because people refuse to do anything about it. Not because there's nothing to be done and we all just have to "suck it up". I already KNOW how stupid it is, but I know that there are others who don't know how stupid it is. Those people are at risk.

Get annoyed as much as you'd like.

>I'd also appreciate it if you didn't treat me like I was some kind of desperate guy who is twitching because he can't stick his dick into someone. Like, have I not made it clear enough yet? Really man, I know that the reason guys bust each other's balls is because they want to make jokes in bad taste, but I also know that those comments are legitimately harmful to some people, and deliberately causing harm, while knowing what it does to guys, is just being an unreasonable dickhead.

Stop pretending you don't care.

  • [-]
  • bubbish
  • 3 Points
  • 09:04:46, 31 January

You've found an insight that isn't clear to everyone, and that's a good thing. It took me losing my virginity + a few odd lays to realize what you're talking about.

Nobody shamed me for being a virgin but they didn't have to, I took care of that all by myself. Hated it when friends talked sex because I couldn't relate at all.

But after I started having it turned out to be just sex. It's just another part of life. It's a physical and emotional need, much like food and shelter and friends. It's not some insurmountable mountain which you can't live without traversing every day. It's just two people rubbing funny looking body parts until they spasm a little and then go to sleep, or eat nachos or whatever.

Sure, it's nice and all and I absolutely love every sweat-soaked second of it. But it's rarely such a big deal that people make it out to be, especially young males.

We'd do good to let off the pressure a little bit. Maybe we shouldn't be preaching the importance of losing your virginity. It doesn't have to be with someone you love, it doesn't have to be perfect. Preaching that just seems to add to the pressure.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 1 Points
  • 09:07:43, 31 January

Thank you so much. brofist

  • [-]
  • fslakj
  • 2 Points
  • 08:59:13, 31 January

> Why do we do that to people?

cos they use it to make themselves feel better about themself. without things like this such guys would probably think life is more boring.

  • [-]
  • JustFinishedBSG
  • 2 Points
  • 09:12:11, 31 January

Because in average the human race is pretty retarded

  • [-]
  • bubbish
  • 3 Points
  • 09:27:54, 31 January

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin

  • [-]
  • kendalltristan
  • 2 Points
  • 10:43:39, 31 January

I know I'm working with anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias rather than anything more solid and I realize the opportunity for my next statement to be interpreted as hypocritical given the tone of this post. In my experience most virgin shaming comes from other virgins or is self inflicted. Yes there are those who are not virgins who shame those who are and yes all shaming of this particular nature is cruel. Yes society places a certain pressure on males to mate at least once and this is probably at least part of the root cause of a lot of self image issues. That said, I maintain that most virgin shaming is self inflicted or comes from other virgins, at least in my experience.

For a long time I knew a lot of virgins. I played a lot of Magic, watched a lot of Star Trek, and generally surrounded myself with others who played a lot of Magic and watched a lot of Star Trek. There is nothing wrong with this, but while we were spending our time with our hobbies, most other dudes were spending time on hobbies that at least passively contributed to their ability to interact with the opposite sex. For instance something like working on cars doesn't actively affect one's ability to interact with women, but it can affect sex appeal as it's a masculine thing to do that I would argue a statistically significant amount of women find attractive. Making good coffee has social benefits as well as being a demonstration of skill. Going running in the morning shows physical ability. Etc, etc, etc. Anyway, the vast majority of virgins I've known in the past decade have made the decision the pursue activities that put them at a social disadvantage in at least this capacity. Naturally there are exceptions. My best friend was a virgin into his 30's for religious reasons and was never at a social disadvantage because he pursued activities that helped contribute to him being a well-liked, social individual.

Naturally I'm of the opinion that pursuing certain activities decreases the likelihood of one encountering a willing mate, but I also think that this creates behavioral patterns that more easily allow for depression and susceptibility to other negative factors such as bullying or even just assholes being assholes. A quick aside about assholes: they tend to be assholes to pretty much everyone outside their peer group so you really can't take them personally. Anyway, unhealthy behavioral patterns beget more unhealthy behavioral patterns, peer groups tend to exacerbate the issue because they're experiencing similar behavioral patterns, a lot of dudes blame it on virginity because of a number of factors, notably that it's the only easily understood metric of comparing against "normal", and probably also because of some assholes who are looking for an easy low-blow in order to feel better about themselves. Ultimately I think that the pressure to lose ones virginity most strongly stems from the comparison to "normal" in that society would better accept one who has mated and the unhealthy behavioral patterns have basically left a giant hole that some perceive can be filled by this form of social acceptance. I think what's closer to the truth is that pretty much nobody cares if someone is a virgin or not, not even the assholes, but that the virgin at this point may have an artificially inflated assumption of the social worth of losing ones virginity.

Yes, as dudes we're genetically programmed to compete with each other and sometimes to give each other hell for what is effectively no good reason. And yes, as dudes we act on this genetic programming. I just think that the programming is ultimately a smaller part of the problem of virgin shaming and that unhealthy behavioral patterns among some people who choose less social paths are a much larger part.

  • [-]
  • 10b-5
  • 1 Points
  • 11:48:20, 31 January

Because it is by definition the most important thing human beings do.

  • [-]
  • TeaDrinkingBarbarian
  • 2 Points
  • 13:06:39, 31 January

> Why do we consider sex as ultra-important and some kind of ridiculous rite of passage?

As far as I've seen, the only people who think sex is this important are the ones who haven't had it.

  • [-]
  • The_Evil_Within
  • 1 Points
  • 13:14:51, 31 January

>Why do we consider sex as ultra-important and some kind of ridiculous rite of passage?

Because it's incredibly intimate, and it requires you to trust someone enough to let down your guard, and submit your naked body to their judgement while also trusting them not to be giving you an STD.

>I don't see why I should care if women don't like me.

You should always care about people liking you in the general sense of the word, because you need to get along with people to get by in life. The less social friction, the easier your life. You should only care if women see you as a valid sex partner if you want to have sex with women or father children some day.

> I don't see why we should antagonize other men for that.

We shouldn't. But it's not going to change because we're animals and we're wired to form 'us' and 'them' groups. If you haven't had sex, that's a major negative in the 'one of us' column unless you can bring something to the table that compensates for it. We give a LOT of social slack to geniuses and the rich, for instance.

  • [-]
  • rapiertwit
  • 1 Points
  • 14:16:00, 31 January

Both men and women are judged by their sexual desirability. For women, it's enough to simply be desired by men. For men, we have to close the deal in order to prove our desirability beyond a doubt. The reasons for this dichotomy have been thoroughly discussed here and elsewhere.

Yeah, on one level it's primitive and silly, viewed through the filter of modern life, distanced as it is from the neverending struggle of nature. But as civilized and "evolved" as we are (or think we are), we're still living things, the purpose of which (if there can be said to be a purpose) is to make more of the same. We can try to rise above our simple animalistic tendencies, and I'm all for that, but the goal will always be an ideal. And an ideal is a goal you strive for, but never reach.

As far as one's personal life, you get to decide how much of other people's shit you internalize and take seriously. When people badger other people about what isn't their business, they're almost always just pushing out their own insecurities on other people. Example: It's never the casual drinker who tries to bully other people into getting drunk - it's the person with a drinking problem who wants to camouflage their own dysfunctional behavior by getting everyone else to join in.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 1 Points
  • 16:30:21, 31 January

Holy crap I can't believe someone actually addressed what the post is about. Thank you.

Anyway, I reckon it's easy to imprint your insecurities onto other people. You can take any asshole in the world and make a case out of that for his motivations. But virgins face discrimination from society; it's not just one guy that's doing it. It's a lot of guys. A lot of guys who patronise them, try to "coach" them into getting laid when sometimes they frankly don't want to. Guys who tell them that they're missing out on life (look through this very thread. At least six of them have said that to me so far) and guys who actually laugh at them or treat them as freaks just because they can't get laid. It's really not as ignored as the people in this thread would be led to believe; it's just that they don't like being called assholes. The fact that movies like "40 Year old Virgin" exist in the first place is kind of my point. Who cares about his sex life? Why does it matter that he's a virgin? Why is his sexless life amusing to us? It's really just fucking stupid. It's also discrimination.

Now where do we suppose that whole mess of things came from?

  • [-]
  • twwwy
  • 2 Points
  • 14:23:15, 31 January

>Why do we consider sex as ultra-important and some kind of ridiculous rite of passage?

Because it kind-of is....

sorry...

  • [-]
  • RampagingKoala
  • 1 Points
  • 14:53:18, 31 January

I don't know about ultra important but there are very few things in this world that love up to the hype they're given, and sex is definitely as good or better than advertised, which says a lot.

  • [-]
  • Gaius_Marcius
  • 1 Points
  • 15:04:48, 31 January

Science- You are life. Life is meant to reproduce. Reproducing is success. Not reproducing is failure. We reproduce sexually. That is the why in black and white.

History- Historically figures for men reproducing throughout history and prehistory are pretty low. Only like 40% of men who ever lived have reproduced (one of the more common figures). That means some 60% of men would share your lack of genetic success.

You-If you really don't care...you will have more money and time than the rest of us. Women are expensive. The flipside of that is that you get to deal with public scorn in the form of this "virgin shaming" because you are a non-producing male. It may interest you to look up "Herbivores" in the context of Japanese culture. Your situation becomes a common theme in places with a high population density.

For my part I am totally cool with dudes self-selecting out of the gene pool. This is particularly true when they self identify as neckbeards.

>I'm overwhelming, overweight, and an übermensch of geeks and nerds everywhere (seriously, D&D, science facebook posts, and pokemon4lyf. I even grow a disgusting neckbeard, as a result of being blonde).

If this long, self-depreciating comment has some weight to it... You can develop a new skillset. You like these RPG games. You can treat yourself like a character and start developing traits to improve you. With a decent career and a little work on the classic neckbeard physique you are only some mildly developed social skills away from getting laid. People act like it is some mysterious secret code. It isn't.

  • [-]
  • vehementvelociraptor
  • 1 Points
  • 16:01:04, 31 January

You don't care.

Other people do.

People that intentionally shame virgins are in the wrong.

Jesus OP, that's all this is. Sex is awesome (for those that care about it). It boosts our self confidence, feels great, relieves stress, and when you've got a girl in your hands you just feel right. It's biology. We're here on this earth to eat, sleep, and procreate. Sure we can give meaning to whatever philosophical bullshit we fancy at the time. For me it's reading and motorcycles. But I also like sex.

Just because you can't see the appeal of something, doesn't mean that we can't add value to it.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 1 Points
  • 16:24:01, 31 January

You completely missed the point. I can't bother to argue with every single one of you like this.

Just read one other goddamn post where I've made it clear enough that this is about discrimination, not my sex life.

  • [-]
  • vehementvelociraptor
  • 1 Points
  • 16:32:40, 31 January

I think you missed the point of your own question. you can't understand why we discriminate or why we place value on sex. I tried to explain.

I also said:

> You don't care.

> Other people do.

> People that intentionally shame virgins are in the wrong.

It's human nature to project our own accomplishments and superiority onto those that haven't gotten there yet. We cut each other down because we're assholes.

You: "Hey guise people are being dicks to other guys and it's wrong."

Nobody is disagreeing with you, but you lack the cognitive ability to see that there will always be bullies in the world. The only cure for this is to harden the fuck up and value yourself before you value what others say you should.

And if you don't want to argue, get off the internet.

  • [-]
  • Thetruthtruths
  • 1 Points
  • 16:10:33, 31 January

Instead of offering a bunch of defensive excuses (and sounds a bit like trolling) and it really doesn't bother you why you are posting this and getting so defensive? I know for a fact this bothers you, also instead of complaining improve yourself. Make an effort. You cannot change how people and men feel about this topic or at least not everyone.

  • [-]
  • blafls
  • 1 Points
  • 16:16:57, 31 January

slow clap

Every single one of you have made this out to be about me. It's been a while since I posted on reddit, and I forgot how many of you guys can be so goddamn stupid.

I posted this because I DO take shit for being a virgin. But I don't give a shit about it because I get self-esteem from my own academic and career accomplishments, not my sexual accomplishments. So it doesn't bother me. However, other men are not so lucky. The discrimination is what I am talking about, not the inability to get laid.

Your ad hominem and patronising bullshit is literally exactly what I am talking about.

  • [-]
  • IDGAF1203
  • 1 Points
  • 16:19:13, 31 January

Bottom line is that procreation is important, even if you don't feel that way. If your parents couldn't have pulled it off you wouldn't be here to complain about how little it matters. Its part of the human value system. If it literally means nothing to you then you are an abnormal person (though I suspect this is not the case, as would most other people you present it to) people your age and younger tend to make fun of the abnormal when it is a calculated choice that doesn't make any sense given their average value system.

  • [-]
  • nittutt
  • 0 Points
  • 13:50:25, 31 January

If you remain a virgin you are the first person in the history of your family and your roots that won't continue it's legacy. You are the sole reason your family isn't going to continue it's legacy.

If you can accept that, then you won't be bothered with people shaming you. It's more about them than you anyway.

If you can't accept that, fucking go fix it.