Would you want to know the whole truth as to why someone doesn't want to date you? (self.AskMen)

594 ups - 129 downs = 465 votes

I know this is an odd question, but lurking here has taught me that guys like communication to be straight forward. I just don't want to be hurtful. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

So I've found out that my friend has feelings for me. He ticks a lot of boxes - he's smart, kind, funny, tall and really cute. I'm physically attracted to him and like that he has a lot of interests.

The thing is, I don't want to date him. The deal breaker for me is that he is such a passive and submissive guy that all the other boxes can't make up for it. He's great at stating knowledge and facts, but he never gives his own opinion about something. He'll always do what the group wants to do. He always wants to do whatever I'd like to do. I need someone who will challenge me, and he doesn't do this even in the slightest bit.

I've tried hanging out with him one on one to see if there is any sort of spark and to see if he's different when he's not around other people, but it's more of the same. "Where do you want to eat? What do you want to do? I'll do whatever you want to do." I've challenged him before and asked why he never puts his opinions forward, and he said that he generally just likes to do what other people are doing. And before people jump in and say that he's just trying to be nice and I'm just being an asshole, he doesn't instigate conversation that leads to any balanced conversation or even friendly debate, as it just ends with him saying, "Oh, right" if I give my opinion. It's frustrating as it means that there's no balance to us, and balance is important to me.

So my question is, if you were him and you potentially eventually ask me out (I don't know if it's coming, but I'd like to be ready for it if it does), would you prefer the full truth or would that be too harsh? It would be worded politely but would be straight forward and along the lines of "I don't think we're compatible because I need someone who can challenge me." Also, does adding, "I find you attractive, but..." at the start stick in the boot a bit too much?

278 comments submitted at 12:26:44 on Feb 3, 2014 by tallgirlbeverly

  • [-]
  • InPursuitOf
  • 554 Points
  • 12:29:38, 3 February

Yes, I'd want the whole truth. You can't improve without honest feedback.

Also, don't say this:

> "I don't think we're compatible because I need someone who can challenge me."

Say this:

> He ticks a lot of boxes - he's smart, kind, funny, tall and really cute. I'm physically attracted him and like that he has a lot of interests. The deal breaker for me is that he is such a passive and submissive guy that all the other boxes can't make up for it.

The first quote doesn't really mean anything in particular, the second quote spells it out.

  • [-]
  • tallgirlbeverly
  • 108 Points
  • 12:40:13, 3 February

Noted, thank you!

  • [-]
  • ZippityD
  • 130 Points
  • 16:54:44, 3 February

Yes, and be very clear whether this is something that will change if he changes or not. The risk of "I like you except this one big thing" is that he might campaign to change that thing. You'll have to consider whether you want that, and if you're not open to it then it could be good to let him know that door is closed permanently.

  • [-]
  • mark10579
  • 44 Points
  • 18:07:12, 3 February

This is important. If he decides to use this as a catalyst to change does that mean you'll want him afterwards? Cos sometimes that's not for the best, sometimes you gotta explain that while a relationship between you two is off the table, he should use this as a growing experience regardless. Otherwise you risk him just acting like he's changed in hopes of getting you to like him while not actually doing anything to improve in the long term

  • [-]
  • htxpanda
  • 14 Points
  • 20:49:31, 3 February

Totally. Because even if he uses this to become more aggressive, he's still doing what you want him to do. The thing is, the guy probably actually enjoys doing what makes the people around him happy, and changing this to, again, fulfill a certain box, is probably not in him, and he could likely face an identity crisis. The worst thing that could happen is he reads your comment as "I don't want to date you because you're too nice." Telling him something he's probably thought for a long time but has fought to not let that be a thing.

  • [-]
  • GridReXX
  • 7 Points
  • 00:51:32, 4 February

I agree. Unfortunately she might not know how she feels until he improves. And he could improve and she could realize she's simply just not into him. She shouldn't be blamed for that.

  • [-]
  • DrLeoMarvin
  • 18 Points
  • 17:55:49, 3 February

You have the opportunity here to really help this guy better himself, he probably has not been told this by a woman before and this could really spark a change him. I know it would me.

  • [-]
  • softservepoobutt
  • 4 Points
  • 23:22:28, 3 February

Why would it make him change? Maybe he prefers to be passive.

  • [-]
  • DrLeoMarvin
  • 10 Points
  • 23:26:58, 3 February

Maybe he is hiding his opinion to appease others? That's how it seems to be when I've known people like this. Almost an insecurity that they think helps their intentions with women and others instead of hurts it.

  • [-]
  • Spore2012
  • 9 Points
  • 18:08:34, 3 February

I think the trick to not hurt people and be very clear is to treat it like you would an employee or interview or something business oriented.

You honestly want them to do better for themselves but that isn't going to be with you, so send them on their way with the knowledge to correct their mistakes in the future.

Also just fyi for everyone. Relationships are supposed to end or not begin and we have to understand that ultimately it doesn't matter why, many times it is irrational and doesn't even need a real reason. You will beat yourself up and stress way too much if you spend your time trying to figure it out. Just let go and move on.

  • [-]
  • danhakimi
  • 8 Points
  • 21:48:36, 3 February

One caveat. Don't just tell him he's passive and submissive... tell him...

> but he never gives his own opinion about something. He'll always do what the group wants to do.

I'd say that sounds clearer, and sounds less like some sort of pre-written sound byte... I'd much prefer to hear the latter than the former, if I were in that situation.

  • [-]
  • zmanian
  • 7 Points
  • 18:50:48, 3 February

Actual intelligible feedback on why one party believes a relationship wouldn't work is a rare and valuable gift. I hope he appreciates it.

  • [-]
  • ejp1082
  • 6 Points
  • 19:05:00, 3 February

The advice above is really good. If it comes to that, do phrase it like that.

But, as an aside, that one "deal breaker" seems like a personality feature that's really malleable. People can learn to be more assertive.

Obviously some people are happy with how they are and have no interest in changing. But it's equally possible that he doesn't even realize he's like that. Explicit rejection with that stated reason would serve as a kick in the pants to get him to work on himself; but so too could some genuine truth telling on the part of a real friend.

Especially if that one thing could change him from a guy you don't want to date into one you do, it seems worth trying, IMHO.

  • [-]
  • chapinrandlett
  • 4 Points
  • 17:48:10, 3 February

just be polite and honest

  • [-]
  • Jake0024
  • 1 Points
  • 01:53:48, 4 February

Keep in mind he'll probably say he always wants to do what you want because he likes you and wants to make you happy.

He's probably not going to understand that disagreeing with you (some of the time) will make you happy.

I don't think I understand it myself.

Definitely don't just say you want someone who can "challenge you." That sounds like you don't think he's capable of keeping up with you in conversation (ie not smart enough).

  • [-]
  • drewgriz
  • 57 Points
  • 16:59:50, 3 February

I'm going to disagree with you here. For me it becomes a lot clearer when the scenario is flipped around, and I'm trying to explain why I don't want to date a given girl.

A) This could be particular to me as I don't really believe in "dealbreakers," but I'm rarely in an OP-like situation where there's a singular feature about someone that is solely preventing me from wanting to date her. If it's something that I can't look past/deal with/work on, it's because the whole rest of the package isn't worth it, which is the actual problem with this person. And usually the qualities that make someone "worth it" or "not worth it" is comprised of a lot more than a list of qualities I'm looking for, and can mostly just be chalked up to "chemistry."

B) Assuming you can come up with a short list of "things about you that make me not want to date you," I don't think it's productive for either person for this list to change hands. On the receiving end, the rejectee can't help but see such a list as a list of things that are wrong with them that need to change, when in fact it's a list of incompatibilities between this particular pair of people, and these incompatibilities are unlikely to transfer to future potential partners. There's a really good chance of the rejectee, if they have strong feelings for someone, trying to change themselves to become the kind of person the rejector would want to date, when in fact they should focus on finding someone who's attracted to the person they are. Diff'rent strokes, etc. Alternatively, it's something that they can't change ("I'm sorry, but you just have a terribly uninteresting personality"), and telling them this will accomplish nothing but hurting their feelings.

Absolutely be clear that you don't want to date someone. Absolutely be clear that it's not "just where I'm at in my life right now," but rather that you're just not interested. In fact, if it's a simple thing you wish they did more or less, by all means tell them "Hey, I get worried when you don't answer my text when you're out of town, I'd appreciate it if you communicated better." But I think "I don't want to date you because of this aspect of who you are as a person" is not a constructive thing to tell someone. At best it's a bummer, and at worst can result in misguided self-invention to fit the criteria of someone who doesn't like them.

  • [-]
  • suzepie
  • 20 Points
  • 17:10:23, 3 February

> these incompatibilities are unlikely to transfer to future potential partners.

I'm gonna jump in here and say that this particular "incompatibility" -- this utter passiveness and inability to form an opinion or desire of his own -- will indeed transfer to future potential partners. It's been stated many times on reddit that most women are looking for guys that aren't pushovers and that have some level of confidence in themselves. And honestly, healthy relationships require balance and compromise, not lying down for someone.

If this guy never hears about what he needs to work on, and then happens to meet a woman who wants nothing more than a guy that will acquiesce to her every whim? He will get taken advantage of. And won't know it. He'll enjoy it, probably, at least for a while, but I can't imagine that anyone is truly up for a lifetime of "whatever YOU want, dear." Beyond that, that kind of woman doesn't sound like a great partner, to me.

I would want this young man to start developing his own stances and pursuing his own desires so that he doesn't get trampled on by others in the future.

  • [-]
  • InPursuitOf
  • 15 Points
  • 17:07:09, 3 February

> I think "I don't want to date you because of this aspect of who you are as a person" is not a constructive thing to tell someone. At best it's a bummer, and at worst can result in misguided self-invention to fit the criteria of someone who doesn't like them.

I guess I'm just the kind of person who wants an exact reason spelled out in black and white. Doesn't matter if I feel bad; knowing is more important than my feelings, in my opinion. I can understand feeling differently, though.

About changing himself for her vs. finding someone who likes him for him, and whatnot. I'm assuming this guy has zero chance with OP going forward, and I'm assuming she'll make that clear, so he shouldn't change for her. However, the thing she's talking about (ultra-submissiveness) is unattractive to many women, and can lead to being a doormat in a relationship when he does find himself in one. Working on that might help the guy out.

  • [-]
  • htxpanda
  • 7 Points
  • 20:59:58, 3 February

There's also the possibility that OP desires assertiveness to a more extreme than most women. If he's all the things she says he is: >smart, kind, funny, tall and really cute. I'm physically attracted to him and like that he has a lot of interests.

Then he will attract a woman who don't find his level of passiveness to be a dealbreaker. Even if they don't find it very attractive, they might like the other aspects of him enough so that his submissiveness could be worked on. OP just doesn't really like him. That one trait may be the most obvious reason, but like /u/drewgriz said: >This could be particular to me as I don't really believe in "dealbreakers," but I'm rarely in an OP-like situation where there's a singular feature about someone that is solely preventing me from wanting to date her. If it's something that I can't look past/deal with/work on, it's because the whole rest of the package isn't worth it, which is the actual problem with this person. And usually the qualities that make someone "worth it" or "not worth it" is comprised of a lot more than a list of qualities I'm looking for, and can mostly just be chalked up to "chemistry."

  • [-]
  • GridReXX
  • 2 Points
  • 00:55:41, 4 February

I hear its unattractive to a lot of people in general. I imagine my boyfriend would become tired of us if I were like the guy OP described. People like a little challenge.

  • [-]
  • justgivingsomeadvice
  • 4 Points
  • 21:34:48, 3 February

This is a good point. But I fear it can lead to complacency and is a bit presumptuous. We should always be striving to better ourselves, and if that means changing a core part of "us" then so be it. It's for the best. For a long time I partly defined myself on my humor (read: being a sarcastic prick who people liked but also found rude/tactless/mean). I thought it was in good fun but most people disagreed. I don't think I should expect everyone to accept this flaw of mine. I still keep my sarcasm at times because humor is good, but I make a conscious effort not to sound condescending. And quite frankly, I'd rather be told I'm being a prick so I can work on improving it than have the people around me keep silent about it where I'm just oblivious to their feelings (to me it's all in good fun).

Same with this guy. You shouldn't just tell him "You don't have strong opinions, I can't date you." I agree with that. There are good things to being agreeable like that. But saying something like "Look, you're a great guy. I love how you're so easy to get along with. But I don't think we're compatible because I need someone to challenge my opinions so I can grow as a person" solves those problems. You're communicating the fact that it's a matter of compatibility, and that you understand that very incompatibility has its positives. But you also communicate to him why it's a dealbreaker and maybe he can decide whether or not he wants to change that aspect of his personality, knowing that to some extent it's not strictly a bad thing.

  • [-]
  • gnomestress
  • 27 Points
  • 17:04:28, 3 February

>You can't improve without honest feedback.

I love everything in your reply besides that bit. There might not be anything for him to improve. His submissiveness may make him incompatible with OP but that may not make him an undesirable person overall. I suppose context is important. If his passive nature hurts his life in other ways he may have something to improve but if not having a relationship with OP is the only thing that's an issue, why should he change?

  • [-]
  • trenchgun
  • 19 Points
  • 17:08:41, 3 February

Really not many women want a submissive and passive guy. Source: I am one. ;)

  • [-]
  • gnomestress
  • 8 Points
  • 17:10:23, 3 February

Would you want to be with someone who you had to change your fundamental personality for? We all undergo some changes to keep relationships healthy but would you want to build a relationship on a false premise? That seems like a recipe for disaster.

  • [-]
  • merv243
  • 10 Points
  • 17:40:17, 3 February

Changing that fact about himself is no different than someone who begins exercising regularly or dressing well. Yes, he has the choice to not do it, but he has to understand that not making the change makes him a less attractive partner not just to OP but to many (most?) women.

It's different than someone, say, giving up his favorite hobby of playing video games because someone they have a crush on doesn't like video games. It's self-improvement which will benefit him in all areas of life, even beyond dating. He is not changing "for" OP. Not in the long term.

  • [-]
  • cubemstr
  • 15 Points
  • 17:19:42, 3 February

When the choice is that or to be alone, a lot of people would prefer to try to change.

  • [-]
  • panjatogo
  • 1 Points
  • 02:16:37, 4 February

Is different if you're changing a trait if yours to try to, in the future, be a better partner than if you're changing specifically for one person in one relationship. The latter is more likely to let to resentment, even if the change is the same.

  • [-]
  • lasagnaman
  • 3 Points
  • 19:12:32, 3 February

Not everything in one's fundamental personality is worth keeping.

  • [-]
  • bslow22
  • 1 Points
  • 20:06:26, 3 February

I don't think making an effort to be more outgoing or voice one's opinion more is a fundamental change in personality; I feel like it's not a digital on or off scenario.

  • [-]
  • TacoXtreme
  • 1 Points
  • 23:43:08, 3 February

But this is exactly what many guys do every day. Life is tough for a naturally passive and submissive guy. Confidence is the number one trait that women look for in a man it's the key to success in almost every aspect of life. And here it is straight from the OP's mouth: He's perfect in every way, except he's too passive for her. I don't think you understand how often passive guys run into this situation.

  • [-]
  • ScottyEsq
  • 2 Points
  • 00:30:14, 4 February

I'm not a woman, but I do know plenty of more passive guys in very happy relationships with more assertive women. Not saying they are doormats, as that is something else entirely, but just more followers than leaders.

  • [-]
  • InPursuitOf
  • 7 Points
  • 17:10:21, 3 February

I guess I just meant it as a broad rule of thumb for life in general. I want honest feedback from my girlfriend, from my family, from my bosses, from my co-workers... etc. I'm not always going to do whatever it takes to make everybody 100% happy with me, but if I am interested in making an effort, then I need honesty from others in order to be able to do that.

  • [-]
  • gnomestress
  • 4 Points
  • 17:11:29, 3 February

Ah, that makes more sense then. I didn't get your full meaning from the way it was worded. Thanks for clarifying!

  • [-]
  • mfranko88
  • 5 Points
  • 19:09:44, 3 February

Just because OP tells him that he's passive doesn't mean that he's going to change. That just means he is now armed with knowledge and awareness that somebody finds him passive. It is still his choice on what to do with that information. Maybe he does nothing and remains content. Maybe he does nothing but starts to notice these things on his own, and then decides to become more assertive.

OP isn't responsible for what he does with this info. If he does nothing, that's on him. Maybe that's for the best. Maybe OP is actually wildly crazy and the guy is a normal dude. There are many pieces to the puzzle that we don't have. But he will have them, and he will also have the opportunity to act on those pieces. I think he should have as many pieces outlined to him as possible.

  • [-]
  • StabbyPants
  • 2 Points
  • 00:30:47, 4 February

you can't even get to the point of asking if it's a fault without knowing the objection.

  • [-]
  • livingthegoodlife1
  • 3 Points
  • 16:20:38, 3 February

The problem with #2 is that he might try to change temporarily for her. Is this really what she wants?

  • [-]
  • InPursuitOf
  • 12 Points
  • 16:26:22, 3 February

My comment kind of assumes that OP has already made it clear that the two of them will not be together, and is only explaining why for his benefit with other women in the future.

  • [-]
  • livingthegoodlife1
  • 2 Points
  • 17:23:34, 3 February

If I really liked her, my first instinct would be to try to change a few things for to see if she finds me more attractive. I'd feel that she may have told me the exact reason why in hopes that it might spark a change.

  • [-]
  • Sunfried
  • 2 Points
  • 23:34:13, 3 February

You can improve without the whole truth. Constructive criticism is good, though.

  • [-]
  • 123Engineer-to-be
  • 3 Points
  • 15:25:29, 3 February

I agree. He's got it right

  • [-]
  • Borania
  • 54 Points
  • 12:32:44, 3 February

Well. I guess this is something I could answer as your friend sounds like me. I would like to know why. He will probably ask and i think you should tell him the truth. If he ask the question he can handle the answer.

Don't expect that to change him though, this is stuff that is incredibly hard to change

  • [-]
  • tallgirlbeverly
  • 21 Points
  • 12:44:16, 3 February

I accept that that's just him and I don't want/need him to change. We're not aligned with each other, and I'm cool with that. He will find the right person for him and they will both love that aspect of his personality.

  • [-]
  • chronologicalist
  • 38 Points
  • 18:43:35, 3 February

>He will find the right person for him and they will both love that aspect of his personality

This struck me pretty hard. I was rejected by a girl recently who didn't really give me concrete reasons why she didn't want to date me, and she kept saying things like "don't worry, you'll find someone." And that was the absolute last thing I wanted to hear from her. It fucking hurt to hear that, because I didn't want someone else, I wanted her.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't mention those words in that order to him. If he's anything like me, that will be worse than hearing "I don't think we'd be good together."

  • [-]
  • AltumVidetur
  • 7 Points
  • 01:28:39, 4 February

Yeah, we guys love it when every single girl tells us that every other girl would be lucky to have us.

Not.

  • [-]
  • Auxxix
  • 4 Points
  • 23:39:48, 3 February

It happened to me on Saturday. Everything was going great and then bam - not interested because we don't have a romantic chemistry. There were no reasons given because she couldn't pinpoint them. I think in cases like that, it's the truth; she just isn't compatible with me and wants something different.

  • [-]
  • Kastoli
  • 13 Points
  • 21:33:30, 3 February

> He will find the right person for him

Don't ever say that to a guy, seriously, it's like the most cop-out go to answer there is.

  • [-]
  • ProjectVivify
  • 11 Points
  • 19:12:37, 3 February

> He will find the right person for him and they will both love that aspect of his personality.

I doubt it. At least not in a healthy way. This sort of people pleasing streak is usually conditioned into people in childhood and takes some very arduous effort to overcome or crises events that are horrible to experience. He was taught from a young age that to get attention and love he needed to ignore his own needs and focus on those of others.

I wish more people were aware of how devastating and maladaptive it can be to train your boys to be 'nice' and obsequious. It ruins lives.

  • [-]
  • friestogo
  • 5 Points
  • 15:41:44, 3 February

They will love that he is extremely passive? How will he ever find a partner if women (even the ones who say he ticks all the boxes) essentially see him as a doormat?

  • [-]
  • Hechtie
  • 11 Points
  • 16:00:42, 3 February

some people want chill partners, maybe cause they are chill themselves or cause they always know what they want to do, (not in an abusive just like I wanna do X if you wanna do Y we can compromise no problem, but I like to do most things my way.)

  • [-]
  • baldrad
  • 24 Points
  • 12:41:55, 3 February

Yes tell him the whole truth though if he fixed all of that would you realistically date him?

  • [-]
  • tallgirlbeverly
  • 32 Points
  • 12:56:17, 3 February

I would definitely consider it, but the change would need to be because he wants to change for himself, and that's where it's tricky.

  • [-]
  • Waltonruler5
  • 33 Points
  • 15:04:08, 3 February

I can't imagine that's something he considers an integral part of himself. He's probably just passive because he doesn't want to seem like a bother or high-maintenance. If you tell him you'd like him to be more assertive, he'll likely be glad to express his opinions more. To guys, this kind of thing is more a habit than a character trait so don't see it as him changing himself, its more changing how he does things.

  • [-]
  • GibsonJunkie
  • 15 Points
  • 16:30:19, 3 February

That's how I am. I can be a very outspoken person, so when it comes to making plans with girls I'm interested in, or even just friends, I don't like being the guy who is like "OKAY HERE'S WHAT WE'RE DOING" and running the risk of pissing her/everyone off because they don't want to do that.

Though, alternatively, if it is a date, I say something like, "I was thinking we would go to X Restaurant tonight. Does that sound good?" It shows I've got a plan for our date, but it also says if there's some reason she doesn't like that place, she's welcome to object.

  • [-]
  • Waltonruler5
  • 11 Points
  • 16:37:39, 3 February

That's exactly the way to handle it. It shows her 1) you were putting thought into it beforehand and 2) you value her opinion as well.

But when you're ready indifferent about it, I hate how people mistake apathy for submission. No, we're not giving into what you want, we seriously don't care.

  • [-]
  • tonyprent22
  • 4 Points
  • 19:07:15, 3 February

I need to second what /u/waltonruler5 said. It's important for you to be prepared for when he says that is something he can change.

I like to go with the group most of the times because I just want to make sure everyone will have a good time. But if it came down to me getting a girl I want I would have NO problems with stepping up and being more firm in what I want instead of asking her to decide.

I can say this because this exact same situation happened to me. A girl I was into told me she liked me but she wasn't sure we could date because I was always so easy going with whatever she or the group wanted. I made sure that if it was me and her, and I had an opinion about something or an idea I wanted to do, I spoke my mind

We have been dating for two years now and it's wonderful.

  • [-]
  • bslow22
  • 2 Points
  • 20:09:13, 3 February

If he makes an effort, works on it, and you see improvement, isn't it hard to expect more? Is it that big of a turn off? Just trying to get some perspective.

  • [-]
  • lespritdelescalier11
  • 1 Points
  • 01:27:06, 4 February

I honestly would only tell him in two situations. One, if he asks. Two, if it's something he can change and you would date him if he did.

I used to be pretty passive, and while I don't blame anyone, it's because of my parents. It was just the way I was raised. I'm not so passive anymore, but there are a lot of things that I really don't care about because of it. Now, I find myself pretending I care a lot of the time just so i don't come across so passively.

  • [-]
  • christmascookies
  • 24 Points
  • 18:02:09, 3 February

People often conflate honesty with lack of tact.

You can be honest, while also being tactful.

  • [-]
  • Gingor
  • 77 Points
  • 12:38:14, 3 February

If it's something improvable (not to date you later on, in general), yes.

  • [-]
  • daffodilhill
  • 8 Points
  • 21:04:37, 3 February

Does this include his weight?

  • [-]
  • CloudDrone
  • 17 Points
  • 22:07:37, 3 February

Would you like it if a guy told you that he wasn't going to date you because you were too heavy?

I think you have to feel that one out. And I don't think telling him that you would date him if not for his weight.

  • [-]
  • PineapplePhalluses
  • 2 Points
  • 01:12:50, 4 February

Yeah, better to say she's just not attracted to him, if he asks, then tell him.

  • [-]
  • cyanocobalamin
  • 16 Points
  • 22:07:58, 3 February

It doesn't have to be hurtful.

You can use code like "I like you as a person, but I just don't feel any physical chemistry with you".

If the person has a significant weight problem s/he will be able to put two and two together for themselves.

  • [-]
  • Auxxix
  • 3 Points
  • 23:44:13, 3 February

I'd say if weight (or any other specific trait) were an issue with attraction it would be better to say it in a more tactful way. Something along the lines of "Physically, there is no attraction/chemistry" or something like that.

  • [-]
  • OH_MY_DAYUMM
  • 3 Points
  • 00:01:46, 4 February

Absolutely. I'm overweight but not to severely but if a girl I liked told me that if I got my shit together in a health sense then I would have some damn good motivation to lose some weight.

  • [-]
  • Gingor
  • 5 Points
  • 21:06:49, 3 February

Yes, of course. Might motivate him to slim down.

  • [-]
  • CancelledDreams
  • 35 Points
  • 14:27:54, 3 February

Not If it's something physical, ex: things I can't change. Otherwise I'd happily be indulged.

  • [-]
  • smpx
  • 5 Points
  • 23:18:33, 3 February

Height I get, but what about weight?

  • [-]
  • sdtp
  • 11 Points
  • 16:32:01, 3 February

I would only want to know the whole truth if you were absolutely certain and could put your finger on what it was about me that turned you off. I wouldn't want some wishy-washy bullshit that wound down to you having no idea why you didn't want to go out with me, just that I didn't float your boat.

If you just didn't like me but didn't know why, I would want you to be explicitly clear you weren't into it so I could move on. Some guys don't pick up hints so well, others take normal behavior as hints. It's best to just flat out say 'I'm not physically attracted to you'. Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. People can't help what they're attracted to.

That said, if this guy likes you, and you go ahead and tell him 'you're not dominant enough for me', he's going to just change that about himself for you. And that's likely still not going to float your boat, because he's still got you on that pedestal where he wants to please you and any dominance is just going to be faked. If he's like this as a person, that shit doesn't just change overnight.

This is a write off, it's never going to happen. Maybe if he pulls himself up and becomes a man, a leader, and he genuinely steps into and fills those shoes, then maybe it's gonna work between you. But as it stands, no way. You're just setting yourself up for future misery. Honestly? I would say something like this:

"You're a great guy in nearly every way, but you're not the guy for me. I like a guy to challenge me, to stand apart, to take the lead and take control, and you are just too laid back for me. I can't help what I'm attracted to, so... this is just never going to work."

You're letting him down easily enough, and this guy sounds like a swell guy, so there's no point being extra harsh. If he was a giant douchebag then by all means let him have it.

But if he finds some other girl who likes how tall he is, how chilled out he is, don't you dare get jealous :p

  • [-]
  • ta1901
  • 31 Points
  • 14:35:44, 3 February

I've found girls who are REALLY put off by an assertive guy. I've also found girls who are really attracted to dominant guys. This can leave guys very confused about what girls want, so by default they become "Mr. Nice Passive Guy".

If you want him to be more assertive, tell him that. See if he can try something new as you two work together. People are allowed to try new things, he might find he likes it, with after some encouragement. I know I liked being more dominant. If you are not in a place to help him, then don't date him in the first place.

Source: I'm a former SAP.

  • [-]
  • Hechtie
  • 33 Points
  • 16:01:54, 3 February

different girls want different things it's silly to act differently than you are (major personality wise) to attract a lady that doesn't really want you.

  • [-]
  • keslehr
  • 21 Points
  • 16:21:23, 3 February

Yes, but being unsuccessful for a long stretch will lead you to do lots of stuff

  • [-]
  • shave_daddy
  • 17 Points
  • 16:38:46, 3 February

you can get stuck between 'be yourself' and 'be more assertive/confident' and 'fake it 'til you make it.'

for an introverted guy, that's some confusing fucking advice.

  • [-]
  • keslehr
  • 3 Points
  • 18:54:04, 3 February

Yep. It's a catch 32

  • [-]
  • shave_daddy
  • 3 Points
  • 19:49:28, 3 February

the important take-away for me has been to really just be myself, and to not let people who don't want 'the real me' bother me. of course if you're not having success, then you're going to naturally question your approach, but i haven't found any happiness in the whole 'fake it 'til you make it' thing.

  • [-]
  • WhatIsTheQOfLife
  • 3 Points
  • 21:39:49, 3 February

What's a catch thirty-two?

  • [-]
  • subtletiesoftaste
  • 1 Points
  • 02:50:08, 4 February

About 10 points worse than a catch-22.

  • [-]
  • centurijon
  • 1 Points
  • 01:50:49, 4 February

The key is realizing that you have to put it all together.

"Be confident in being yourself"

That doesn't necessarily mean being assertive, if that's not who you are. What's important is being truly comfortable with yourself and letting that lead to confidence. Once you're comfortable in your own skin, everything else comes easier because it feels more natural.

This is the root of the "don't give a fuck" idea. It works, it's just not easy to get there.

  • [-]
  • Hechtie
  • 4 Points
  • 16:47:17, 3 February

i'm not saying I don't understand, and there is a difference b/w improving yourself and changing who you are.

  • [-]
  • TThor
  • 5 Points
  • 17:26:55, 3 February

But if a certain social trait is keeping you back in social interactions, and you can change that trait, doing so might be for the best (so long as changing it doesn't cause you excess distress)

  • [-]
  • Hechtie
  • 4 Points
  • 17:29:47, 3 February

being passive isn't a social trait it's a personality one. being too awkward in social situations is a social trait, low confidence, these should be changed, but not being a dominant personality? no stay chill.

  • [-]
  • LeifEriksonisawesome
  • 1 Points
  • 20:00:14, 3 February

He may be already acting differently than he is because of what ta1901 mentioned.

  • [-]
  • Hechtie
  • 1 Points
  • 20:12:00, 3 February

I understand this, and think that it is a poor decision as shown by my earlier statement

  • [-]
  • danhakimi
  • 1 Points
  • 21:54:56, 3 February

But he might just be shy. His personality, unchanged, might be different with regard to women who do or do not express attraction toward him.

  • [-]
  • NerdMachine
  • 2 Points
  • 17:08:37, 3 February

The vast majority want assertive. If given a choice a guy should be assertive IMO. It leads to better outcomes in virtually all aspects of life. I used to be passive, then was an asshole, now I'm politely assertive and it really is the best way to be.

  • [-]
  • Unicornrows
  • 1 Points
  • 18:20:46, 3 February

It seems like telling him to challenge her more and then having him do it would just be more of him doing what she wants.

  • [-]
  • Stormray117
  • 1 Points
  • 01:05:54, 4 February

I was going to say the same thing. When passive guys such as myself get in a relationship, they can become more independently thoughtful.

  • [-]
  • Kill_Welly
  • 6 Points
  • 13:18:25, 3 February

Yes. It might hurt at the time, but better to know what I can do next time.

  • [-]
  • cyanocobalamin
  • 5 Points
  • 18:17:49, 3 February

>So I've found out that my friend has feelings for me. He ticks a lot of boxes - he's smart, kind, funny, tall and really cute. I'm physically attracted to him and like that he has a lot of interests.

>The thing is, I don't want to date him. The deal breaker for me is that he is such a passive and submissive guy that all the other boxes can't make up for it.

If you told him that just what you wrote above, you wouldn't come off as trying to be hurtful AND you would be telling him something he really needs to hear, that has the potential to benefit his happiness long after the two of you part ways.

He MIGHT be slightly hurt, but as a friend, you owe it to him to tell him how he is sabotaging himself. Other women he asks out are less likely to tell him the plain truth, which he needs to hear in order to change and he needs to change to be happier.

  • [-]
  • Disguised_Contempt
  • 3 Points
  • 17:35:51, 3 February

He sounds like the type of person who would want to fix whatever is wrong in order to make you want to date him. Which is bad, because there's nothing wrong with him, it's just you don't like that particular aspect of him. So I personally don't think you should give him a detailed description unless he specifically asks you.

Then again, I don't know the guy. In the end it's your call.

  • [-]
  • ihlazo
  • 2 Points
  • 15:50:30, 3 February

Yes. I think a lot of people have false perceptions about what makes them undateable. Some people, for example, have 'life issues' (jobless, etc) and don't realize that this is unattractive. Those false perceptions are only reinforced by vague, nebulous or at worst deceitful explanations for rejection.

Regarding your specific situation, with a power dynamic like that in the relationship ... I would like to suggest that judging him based on this situation is not necessarily (but may be) an accurate representation of his personality.

  • [-]
  • RegretLater
  • 2 Points
  • 16:14:32, 3 February

I would want the whole truth. With the whole truth, he can make a sound decision on whether to move on or to keep trying. Even if you don't tell him the whole truth, there's a good chance he'll atleast know you didn't give him the real reason and it's a horrible feeling not knowing what exactly it is that caused the rejection. You're doing him a favor by telling him the whole truth. I feel like he can change though. When I'm with a girl I like/interested, I generally lean towards doing whatever she wants to do and try not to defend my opinion too hard. I do that to gauge the situation and the type of person she is. Some people can't stand when the other person doesn't agree with them so I rather avoid situations like that. After a short while when I feel that I know the person enough, I begin to be more open/comfortable and start taking charge. Every one is different though. He could just be doing it because he's the submissive type. Hard to tell so you're going to have to communicate with him. Good luck!!

  • [-]
  • datinginfo
  • 2 Points
  • 16:56:35, 3 February

I'm going to drop a very unpopular opinion in here.

All guys (myself included) will say that they want the whole, honest, brutal truth. However, few guys can actually handle it.

Chances are, though, if he's super passive about everything, he's probably one of the few guys who will handle it very well. He may even step up his game and become more assertive and proactive.

However, if his assertiveness is only as a result of you telling him to be assertive, then paradoxically would that still strike you as passive?

  • [-]
  • phukka
  • 2 Points
  • 17:34:10, 3 February

No, but not for the reason that many people would think. If you tell a guy that you're denying exactly what you think is wrong with him, then he'll go and try to change himself for you, which is a terribly stupid and naive thing to do.

If a girl turns me down, I move on. Whatever your reasons may be, it means that you're not interested, and my goal shouldn't be to then make you interested by changing myself or "bettering" myself to your liking. Fuck that.

If there are actual issues that need to be addressed (hygiene, general cleanliness, etc.,) then you can tell them, but if it's a personality trait or a quirk or something then it doesn't need to be said. We have bad luck in relationships because we're trying to force compatibility. Sometimes we just need to realize that we don't belong together and move on.

  • [-]
  • TotallyUnqualified
  • 2 Points
  • 18:02:15, 3 February

Yes, definitely tell him this because he CAN change this and you'll probably be helping him regardless of the outcome. Provide examples that illustrate your point well.

If you want to really help him, tell him now, don't wait for him to ask you out. Give him that feedback. A very good female friend of mine did this for me, and although it is still something I struggle with, knowing it is an issue has helped immensely. I've dated WAY more since then.

Aside from giving this feedback, you can try to call him out on the instances he backs down. This could be done in a flirty way or neutral way, but it might bring a little bit of banter out of him or possibly make the relationship more rewarding for you.

I would love to hear an update as this topic hits close to home for me.

  • [-]
  • SANPELLIGRIN0
  • 2 Points
  • 18:23:29, 3 February

It's so weird that this was brought up because me and a friend were just talking about this.

How it would be nice to receive honest feedback, especially if it was a first date and you don't plan on seeing them again. As opposed to getting flat lined.

But kudos to you. The way you wrote your response is very polite and straightforward. While I'm sure that person will be hurt to hear that temporarily, long term they'll ultimately appreciate it. It may help him in his own path, and may, for the right reasons, help him with you. Who knows?

  • [-]
  • JayLime
  • 3 Points
  • 18:35:41, 3 February

A friend of mine rejected me once and gave me typical bullshit excuses. I felt like she didn't respect me enough to be honest. The way I see it, if you respect someone enough, you tell them the truth even if it hurts, because it's better for them in the long run. If you don't care too much about the person, you tell them whatever hurts the least so you don't have to deal with them

  • [-]
  • Vertueux
  • 2 Points
  • 18:37:04, 3 February

Yes, please make this a thing.

  • [-]
  • MargotteL
  • 2 Points
  • 20:27:25, 3 February

Sometimes we need the be told the truth to go forward in life, I know I'm always open to constructive criticism if it's said with goodwill because it makes me grow as a person.

  • [-]
  • 1a2s3d4f5g
  • 4 Points
  • 18:16:52, 3 February

> I need someone who will challenge me

what the fuck does this even mean.

  • [-]
  • twishling
  • 9 Points
  • 18:37:56, 3 February

It means someone who will have their own personal input and opinions. It's one thing if you're dating someone who (hypothetical magic situation here) is exactly the same as you in all aspects, but in her situation it's not that he's agreeable because they have the same opinions, it's that he doesn't have his own opinions. It's like dating yourself, a one person relationship. It can be boring and annoying on even the smallest issues. OP: "hey I totally want Chinese tonight, you down?" Guy Friend: "Funny you should say that, that's exactly what I'm in the mood for too!" - vs - OP: "hey I totally want Chinese tonight, you down?" Guy Friend: "Okay, whatever you want is fine with me". Only with everything.

It's good to have a partner who challenges you, and that involves opening your mind to previously unseen perspectives and mindsets. It's impossible to have an in depth and stimulating debate about a subject with someone who brings nothing to the table and agrees with every word you say. In a relationship you need two people who actually converse back and forth, and you can't do that with someone who defers to your viewpoint in every conversation. Even outside of communication (the most important relationship muscle to exercise), think about activities, outings, vacations, interests. If he has no input on where they should hang out, what they should do on weekends, choosing a fun new hobby to start doing together - how is that enjoyable? It's like dating a puppy. He's cute and excited to see you and loves spending time with you, but, uh, that's about it.

  • [-]
  • pcadrian
  • 2 Points
  • 14:05:55, 3 February

Example of being straight forward: No thank you, I just don't see you that way.

Example of not being straightforward: you give him your number but don't answer to his calls.

Now, if you want to help out and tell him to stop being a pussy, be warned - your message will likely not be as well received.

  • [-]
  • GibsonJunkie
  • 2 Points
  • 16:30:47, 3 February

...but probably don't just call him a pussy.

  • [-]
  • Kerplonk
  • 2 Points
  • 14:30:09, 3 February

I would want to know. There are some qualities that are unattractive to nearly everyone and you can't fix problems that you don't know about and its a lot easier to move on after being rejected if you can either work on improving your deficiency or decide that is not worth the effort for the possible relationships that I'd be missing out on.

  • [-]
  • windrixx
  • 2 Points
  • 15:12:43, 3 February

Probably not all at once, but eventually, definitely.

  • [-]
  • RooftopBBQ
  • 2 Points
  • 15:27:50, 3 February

If it's something I can improve (a personality trait for example), then yes. If it's something I have no control over (height for example), then no.

  • [-]
  • shewhogoesthere
  • 1 Points
  • 15:40:09, 3 February

I wouldnt give that sort of opinion unless he explicitly asked for it. Why? Just because YOU prefer one thing, doesnt mean that is a flaw with him or that another girl wont be okay with him as he is. If he asked Id just say I dont think our personalities and ways of communication are a good match for a relationship, trying to avoid pointing to specific 'about you' things.

  • [-]
  • rejuven8
  • 1 Points
  • 19:19:52, 3 February

Easy way to determine this. Have a conversation with him where you say you don't think it would work with him and ask him if he wants to know why.

  • [-]
  • extragrandeur
  • 2 Points
  • 15:49:40, 3 February

Personally I think there might be a million reasons why a girl wouldn't date me. If I like a girl, all I can do is putting myself out there and hope she reciprocate the feeling. If she doesn't I would just move on. I try not to let a girl's values dictate how I feel, or I'd be in eternal emotional abyss. So I'm indifferent to the whole truth. Then again, I'm not a passive or submissive person to the best of my knowledge.

  • [-]
  • thirteenthirtyeight
  • 1 Points
  • 15:51:28, 3 February

I would like the truth in a way that I can take as constructive criticism.

Something like "sorry anon I'm not interested in you because you never stand up for yourself" I wouldn't say that you find him attractive because that's just going to give him more fuel to think he can change and win you over. Unless you're open to that don't give him anything to think you feel that way.

I'd also suggest you give him space but answer his questions if he has any. Clarity and honesty is going to help this remain civil long term.

  • [-]
  • DaveYarnell
  • 1 Points
  • 15:57:56, 3 February

I wouldn't because the answer is always going to be "I'm not attracted to you" in some form. In your case it is that you are not attracted to submissive men.

If he knew that, he may go changing himself, fighting his submissive nature. But it is in his nature.

What he ought to do is not change himself, and find a woman who likes to "wear the pants." Everyone is happy.

  • [-]
  • HalfysReddit
  • 1 Points
  • 16:00:43, 3 February

If I were him I'd want to know, otherwise I'd keep repeating the same shit. He's doing what he was raised to believe he's supposed to do, and no one has yet told him that shit don't work.

  • [-]
  • Abbotter
  • 1 Points
  • 16:01:19, 3 February

Let him down, but don't burn any bridges. He might start to look a whole lot more attractive a few years down the road. Challenging can easily become exhausting with a couple of bad picks.

  • [-]
  • Rekwiiem
  • 1 Points
  • 16:40:12, 3 February

I feel like in this case, you could just say that you aren't really interesting in dating him. If he does ask why, then you can tell him what about him turns you off. But I suspect he won't ask.

  • [-]
  • chicagoclone
  • 1 Points
  • 16:46:54, 3 February

nope.

  • [-]
  • ElBrad
  • 1 Points
  • 16:47:38, 3 February

It took me longer to become less passive, because I thought women wanted to be treated like they were the most important thing in my life. I had a string of short relationships because of this.

Today, I'm married, and it's because I learned what the average woman wants, applied it, and got where I am today.

...in short, yes. Short-term pain is mitigated by long-term gain.

  • [-]
  • le_fez
  • 1 Points
  • 16:47:45, 3 February

IN a situation like his and it was presented as constructive feedback then yes I'd want to hear it, well maybe not want to at that time but certainly need to and in the long run appreciate it.

  • [-]
  • AverageUnknown
  • 1 Points
  • 16:56:37, 3 February

If it's something I can feasibly change, absolutely. If it's a character trait of mine that's not attractive to you specifically, I could probably do without knowing.

  • [-]
  • mashonem
  • 1 Points
  • 16:57:18, 3 February

Only if it's something I can actually improve on. If it's something outside of my control, I'm fine not knowing

  • [-]
  • IHDN2012
  • 1 Points
  • 16:57:49, 3 February

ABSOLUTELY. I hate it when people don't tell me just because they want to spare my feelings. There is always a nice way to say the truth, and it helps people grow.

  • [-]
  • fishwithabunni
  • 1 Points
  • 17:16:45, 3 February

I think you need to frame it in a productive way. That how he is isn't bad, it's just not right for you. And you don't want him to change how he is for you. It's okay for him to be more of a follower, and kind of a "go with the flow" kinda guy. If he was female, I think he would be praised for being "easy going", but as a man, he seems unassertive. Try not to tell him he's "too submissive". Just say he's not the type of guy who gets you going, but there are women out there who would really like what he has to offer.

  • [-]
  • DownhillYardSale
  • 1 Points
  • 17:26:16, 3 February

Yes. The more blunt the honesty the better.

  • [-]
  • 10b-5
  • 1 Points
  • 17:29:46, 3 February

If it's something I can do something about; yes

If it is out of my control; no.

So, if you're not dating me because I acted like an asshole, tell me. If you just don't like brown skinned people, keep it to yourself.

  • [-]
  • somaad
  • 1 Points
  • 17:42:55, 3 February

You should tell him, he might want to change, he might not but it's worth knowing why.

  • [-]
  • issius
  • 1 Points
  • 17:51:58, 3 February

You may want to tell him. Some guys seem to think that's what a relationship is (look at most sit coms that basically show married men as creatures that and constantly shat on by the wife).

Most of the girls I'm friends with would never date a passive guy like how you're describing. Almost uniformly, I know they are attracted to guys that will take the lead. I'm sure it may not be true for 100% of women, but I think its true for enough that he may want to re-evaluate that part of himself.

  • [-]
  • Justin3018
  • 1 Points
  • 17:55:36, 3 February

I prefer to know. That way, if it's something I can work on, I know to work on it. And, if it's something inherent about me, I know you're an asshole.

Personally, I'm taking this 'be more decisive' comment, and I'm going to integrate it into my own life. I always go with the flow, just because I truly am fine doing whatever, and I like people to be happy... but a little assertion can be hot too. Thanks for the tip, OP.

  • [-]
  • SmallOrange
  • 1 Points
  • 18:32:52, 3 February

If I wanted to pursue someone and they weren't interested in dating me, it would be enough for them to tell me they weren't interested in dating me. Getting a laundry list of all the reasons why is of no interest to me unless I had characteristics that were objectively a turn off to many people. As far as I'm concerned how other people feel about me is none of my business. I think it's satisfactory to be told that there's no romantic compatibility from their end.

If he asks you out and you're not interested then you can just say that you don't feel a romantic spark and don't feel you are compatible in terms of a more intimate relationship. That should be enough. If he presses for more it just means he does not accept your lack of romantic feelings for him and since you are not in a relationship with him, you do not owe him further explanation.

I had a situation where a male friend kept pressing me and pressing me for reasons why I wouldn't be with him and at the end of it I had to cut him from my life because he could not move on from it.

  • [-]
  • StupidWes
  • 1 Points
  • 18:40:30, 3 February

Real is the way to be. He may not be pleased, but you're helping him in the long run.

  • [-]
  • FatStupidAmerican
  • 1 Points
  • 18:40:55, 3 February

Yes. Not that I would change much or anything about me but I am 28 and only jave beem on 2 dates, i really want to know.

  • [-]
  • SSolus
  • 1 Points
  • 18:57:45, 3 February

Kinda off topic, but most girls i know are exactly like the boring guy you have described, with very few exceptions. I feel like girls just expect me to bring excitement into their life, with them not being exciting or interesting in the very least.

With regards to your question, I think you should take everything said in here with a grain of salt. People will tell you that they want the truth, but the truth is, the truth hurts, and nobody wants to hurt.

Id say you should just keep on lying.. unless you want this guy (and potential others) to hate you for a very long time, because you will DEFINITELY hurt some feelings

  • [-]
  • oni_spartan
  • 1 Points
  • 19:03:06, 3 February

Did it occur to you that he might just be trying to be polite. Like Maybe the dude really likes seafood but you hate it. I'd say atleast go on a trial run and tell the dude how to improve himself. It's almost like being in the army, they don't let 12 year olds with the only combat experience being call of duty on to the battlefield. Many dudes have to train to be better.

I for example hate the person who I was my freshman-sophmore year of highschool now I'm a completely different person from the experiences I've had.

  • [-]
  • KarakuriPierrot
  • 1 Points
  • 19:09:35, 3 February

I would very much appreciate it, yes.

Last year, I had a beautiful girl interested in me and I was also interested in her, however, I hadn't been in a relationship for so long ( my last relationship was 5 or 6 years ago ) I didn't know what to do.

I didn't know what to do because all of my girlfriends cheated on me ( all of this while I was being bullied at school ) so I had a really bad time trusting girls, and I was pretty awkward around her.

After a week, she stopped talking to me ( she was from my class, so I'd see her every day ). I just thought she was mad at me for some reason, so I tried giving her some time. Later, a friend of mine told me she just thought I was annoying.

It hurt me like fuck. Don't do that. You can tell me you don't find me attractive, or that I'm annoying, but don't just ignore me.

  • [-]
  • compacta_d
  • 1 Points
  • 19:16:51, 3 February

Looks like there are a lot of responses on either side of the fence on this one.

I have actually had the pleasure of having a girl lay out "these are the things you need to do". And really it basically spelled out that girls will almost always be the passive ones and to be confident and assert yourself.

The lack of assertiveness was not something that was inherent to my personality, but rather how I treated women because it was hammered into my brain to be gentle and caring and "don't do anything they don't want you to".

This completely opened my eyes and I haven't really had many women problems since. Only getting better really.

If he is the inexperienced type (single mom?), this may totally be the case and yes I would tell him. Him may even change instantly. I know I did, although it took time to find the happy medium.

However if a girl didn't want to date me because I'm fat, then telling me so isn't really constructive at all. It's something that I am obviously working on and more of a "type" thing.

Saying "You're not my type" is good enough.

  • [-]
  • Stevebutnotreally
  • 1 Points
  • 19:28:39, 3 February

Generally I want the truth, if for no other reason than future reference. Being rejected sucks either way, but if I can build off of it, at least that's something.

  • [-]
  • vawco112
  • 1 Points
  • 19:54:05, 3 February

Yes if it comes to that give him the whole truth. I am currently in that sort of situation with I girl I had been interested in for a long time and the worst part is that she won't even talk to me. I don't even want to have a relationship with her at this point I just want to know why and move on. Just tell him the truth.

  • [-]
  • greyskyeyes
  • 1 Points
  • 19:58:11, 3 February

I say you give him a chance, on the condition that he develop a backbone. I think he may just be too laid back and if he understands that you find asserting his wants and opinions a necessary character trait, I'll bet he can do that.

  • [-]
  • Geohump
  • 2 Points
  • 21:05:29, 3 February

But that means forcing him to acquire a backbone at someone else's bequest.

Its just no good unless he does it on his own.

  • [-]
  • inconspicuousuous
  • 1 Points
  • 21:34:46, 3 February

To be fair there is a big difference between not really caring where you eat or what activity you do that day and not having a backbone.

  • [-]
  • Blahblahblahinternet
  • 1 Points
  • 20:02:14, 3 February

It's hard for me to imagine a man like you describe. My guess is your young, at least not to your mid-twenties yet.

My only advice is that the importance of your boxes will change over time.

  • [-]
  • Svardskampe
  • 1 Points
  • 20:03:58, 3 February

In this particular case I'd think it's a very good idea to give the full truth, as he is actively putting himself down to please others, it'd be good to know that behavior is not working.

Not always the case though that the full truth is necessary. "You're too ugly" or reasons like that are too harsh.

  • [-]
  • TwazzlyHashtag
  • 1 Points
  • 20:05:26, 3 February

Sure, why not. I always want to know what other people are thinking.

  • [-]
  • gw2dude
  • 1 Points
  • 20:08:21, 3 February

I kind of see where he's comming from. I was somewhat simular years back.

The things you're saying about him are likely things he doesn't realise he's doing wrong. In his mind he's the ideal match, he likes all the things you do, he's willing to make time for you and always agrees with you. He's not likely to irritate others as he likes to figure out other people's stance before speaking up. What more could you want? Spending time with you would be his hobby.

He's likely been raised to be convient, mannered and considering other people's desires. A true "gentleman" in his mothers eyes.

If you have respect for him and actually want him to have better odds for his next relationship, be specific about what and why.

  • [-]
  • roy_cropper
  • 1 Points
  • 20:10:44, 3 February

Be honest, but don't be a cunt...pretty simple I think

  • [-]
  • Jboycjf
  • 1 Points
  • 20:14:52, 3 February

You can be 100% honest, without being mean about it. Just tell him straight out, and if he takes offense to it, then he's on his first step towards becoming his own man! Win-win.

  • [-]
  • Tetragonos
  • 1 Points
  • 20:15:31, 3 February

This was a major component as to why my last relationship did not work out, and also why it worked initially. Odd thing to say but it is true.

At first she was very happy that I was unfailingly kind and patient with her and that I would always acquiesce. She started to dislike that I had no wants or desires myself (I had them just not a strong feeling one way or the other. in my mind it was more important to make others happy than it was to have strong feeling about something myself. This led to boredom and after two years unhappiness. took a year for the relationship to come to a head where I was dumped.

If I understood it then, like I do now, I would have done things very differently. I would have been a very different person.

So if you think he ticks off enough boxes, tell him and start a relationship and you can grow together as a couple, but if you just want to fend him off, for you personally it dosent matter if you tell the truth or not, if you care about him becoming a better person then you should tell the truth.

Not saying you are cold hearted, not saying you dont care, just giving advice from a different perspective.

  • [-]
  • DiamondDays
  • 2 Points
  • 20:27:46, 3 February

TELL HIM.

He probably won't like you much afterwards but if it changes his attitude you'll have done him a great favor!! :)

  • [-]
  • princesspeypey
  • 1 Points
  • 20:55:52, 3 February

Yes, that way if it's something that I can work on to be a better person, I know to do so.

  • [-]
  • SilentLettersSuck
  • 1 Points
  • 21:08:57, 3 February

Absolutely. I need feedback.

  • [-]
  • ra84
  • 1 Points
  • 21:11:28, 3 February

Not really. Solely because it doesn't matter to me either way. Dating is like catching the bus, if you miss one the next one's just ten minutes away.

  • [-]
  • redshrek
  • 1 Points
  • 21:14:28, 3 February

No. If you don't want to date then all you need to do is say you don't want to and all will be kept moving.

  • [-]
  • Questionforaquestion
  • 1 Points
  • 21:24:28, 3 February

If you are interested in him besides the last point, let him know. If he likes you, he might change... You can not change a man but a man can choose to change.

  • [-]
  • CaliSwagBlazeIt
  • 1 Points
  • 21:24:43, 3 February

And r/seduction gains another subscriber.

  • [-]
  • KamaKaZzie
  • 1 Points
  • 21:27:22, 3 February

better to hear a painful truth and be able to change (if that is desirable to the person) than an easy lie and wonder why people wont date you

  • [-]
  • steven_mctowlie
  • 1 Points
  • 21:29:21, 3 February

Short term lies like "i'm just not ready." are satisfying, but long term I would like to know the truth so that I can also move on and get my head to a clear place. I can then look at it objectively and grow as a person and most importantly, for the person doing the rejecting, allow me to leave them alone.

  • [-]
  • Kastoli
  • 1 Points
  • 21:31:19, 3 February

In this case, yes, i think the 'whole truth' here can in no way hurt.

There are some instances however where anything more in-depth than stating the reason probably isn't warranted.

  • [-]
  • Player276
  • 1 Points
  • 21:31:25, 3 February

I think your looking at it wrong. Assuming you 2 are friends, you should simply tell him about his "flaw".

You could easily do it in a joking manner, and assuming hes smart like you say, pick up the hint.

Then he will either never ask you out, or try to fix that about himself.

If i was that guy, i would want to know flaws within my personality that could cause others to shy away from me.

  • [-]
  • benndur
  • 1 Points
  • 22:53:13, 3 February

This. If he likes you, he will definitely pay extra attention to the things you say. Saying something about liking guys who don't always agree with you, or guys who will challenge you with different opinions etc may make him change the way he acts in that regard.

  • [-]
  • chikinpickle
  • 1 Points
  • 21:36:14, 3 February

Yes please for the love of god. I used to have the same problem, and the only reason I behaved that way is because I was taught by my mother that being a "gentlemen" and putting girls feelings before your own was how you get a girlfriend.

I now know this is wrong of course, and have stopped censoring myself or engaging in his behaviors. But there is a chance that he behaves that way not because it is his personality but because that is what he was taught as a kid.

  • [-]
  • SwoleLottaLove
  • 1 Points
  • 21:50:37, 3 February

It depends on the personality of the guy and whether he can take truth well or not + whether he feels he can improve himself or is left with whatever he was born with. Personally, yes, I always ask for the raw truth so that I can improve.

  • [-]
  • Lightspeedius
  • 1 Points
  • 21:54:53, 3 February

Nope, because I don't believe it is possible to truly know one's motivations for being attracted to someone. We're mysterious beings.

If you don't find someone attractive you may have a sound narrative that tells you why this person, despite all of their attractive features, is ultimately an unsuitable partner. However this narrative is not "the truth". It's a construction that makes sense to you, but I can't get in your head, so I can't know why these features particularly stand out to you. I am not going to change for someone who can't accept me as I am and who I'm not going to be involved with.

If you don't accept me as I am then please move on and find someone you do.

  • [-]
  • danhakimi
  • 1 Points
  • 21:58:13, 3 February

First off... yes.

Second of all... the way to do it is a little tricky. Don't... preach to him. Don't tell him what women like. Just tell him why it isn't working in this particular case, and in a sort of non-accusatory, kind way.

Don't tell him that you're not that great, or that he'll find someone.

Do be apologetic, if you want to be... that might help ease the blow.

I'm probably one of relatively few men who would definitely want to remain friends. Don't offer out of the blue, but if he asks, and you're willing, that's fine.

... well, that's all from my perspective.

  • [-]
  • vinogradov
  • 1 Points
  • 22:06:04, 3 February

Yes, very much so. When a girl breaks up with me I make her tell me the reason, it's quite ridiculous how much people sugarcoat things (especially in the USA). "It's me, not you" fuck that. I'm a man and I want nothing but honest reviews about myself, so I can improve myself. A lot of times people are assholes because nobody ever has the guts to call them an asshole.

  • [-]
  • brimarcat
  • 1 Points
  • 22:20:20, 3 February

So, if he changes, you would date him? I don't really believe people can change, but they can make changes to adapt to a situation. If he started making the changes, would you date him? Because I guarantee he will try to change for you if he likes you that way...

  • [-]
  • filthyinglishkniget
  • 1 Points
  • 22:44:00, 3 February

Not interested in me romantically?

Next!

  • [-]
  • dbaker102194
  • 1 Points
  • 22:49:35, 3 February

Yes, I'd want to know. If it's something I can improve, then I want to know what it is so that I can improve.

If it's something I can't improve, you're going to hurt me, but I'd still rather know so that I can hide it as best I can.

  • [-]
  • BladexJogger
  • 1 Points
  • 23:15:28, 3 February

Please!! If you don't tell us everything or you beat around the bush, how will we ever figure out what to work on or fix? Clearly if we knew we were lacking something extremely important we'd have already made an attempt to work on it and make it better, so if you don't help us out, as mean as it may seem, you're just perpetuating a cycle of "undatability" if you will

Edit - Clarity

  • [-]
  • letsgofightdragons
  • 1 Points
  • 23:16:14, 3 February

It's not like aids or anything incurable

  • [-]
  • RichardWoodsOBGYN
  • 1 Points
  • 23:17:38, 3 February

Tell the full truth. Aside from that i cant help but focus on your problem with the guy.

As a formerly passive guy, I used to be the type to do "what you want to do." While I learned that it's annoying to have that said all the time, I also learned that I like trying new restaurants and foods so when I ask the question, im looking for seed ideas, from which i then usually contribute the restaurant choice. This way we both contribute to the choice (I do it the other way too, pick the food girl picks the neighborhood)

And from past experiences, to me. when a girl expects a guy to make all the choices ~all the time~ it makes her seem uninterested, boring, and like shes giving her self an easy exit. What I mean by the last point is anytime a future argument comes up suddenly I never care about her opinion, that im pushy, that I really dont know her because she doesnt even like the restaurants I take her too (yet she never tells me she doesnt).

My suggestion is, make half the choice for the guy, time and date, type of food ex, "i want mexican" if he still cant make a decision after youve done some work then move on.

  • [-]
  • ChildishGambinoFan
  • 1 Points
  • 23:21:01, 3 February

If it was something I could improve on with feedback then yeah, definitely. Just don't do it in a way that might hurt his feelings, be kind and constructive. Most importantly, if you're saying that he has a chance if he improves on these things then make that fact EXPLICITLY clear. If he truly likes you enough, this will motivate him to work on these aspects and if he doesn't; well then no harm done because you don't like him in that way either and there's no point in you pursuing that kind of relationship!

  • [-]
  • softservepoobutt
  • 1 Points
  • 23:22:06, 3 February

Yeah I don't really see a problem with telling him why you don't want to date him. He can take it or leave it.

  • [-]
  • Doobiddydoo
  • 1 Points
  • 23:26:54, 3 February

I think in this instance he needs to know. Because he seems like great and thoughtful guy from the description you've given him here and this seems like his only real thing that he needs to know to be desirable.

Has this guy had any relationship issues in the past? Because that might be a reason for him acting this way.

  • [-]
  • SmartassRemarks
  • 1 Points
  • 23:36:46, 3 February

Yes. I can handle it and I'm always looking for ways to improve myself. One of the worst things ever is being rejected and not knowing why.

  • [-]
  • O_oblivious
  • 1 Points
  • 23:54:30, 3 February

If I ask, then I want the answer. And I really think that the "I don't have enough time right now" is complete and utter bullshit, especially with the evidence against it.

  • [-]
  • goodbyes
  • 1 Points
  • 00:03:18, 4 February

Yep, I'd want to learn from what I'm doing wrong.

  • [-]
  • mamarley
  • 1 Points
  • 00:13:19, 4 February

Definitely the whole truth. Maybe it is just the engineer in me talking, but there is nothing as frustrating as failing at something without knowing any reason why or what I can change next time to make things work better.

  • [-]
  • Lousy_Chemist
  • 1 Points
  • 00:24:51, 4 February

I do like to know. That way I can figure out if its something I can realistically change or improve on, or not.

In this case I think telling your friend is a good idea.

Do NOT give him the "I find you attractive, but ..." line. It doesn't make the impact any better or easier, and it sounds really disingenuous.

  • [-]
  • ScottyEsq
  • 1 Points
  • 00:27:30, 4 February

In that case no as changing my personality is probably not going to happen. It's also not really a flaw and it's pretty hard to explain what you are talking about without it coming across as either an insult or a criticism. For some people that would be exactly what they wanted in a guy. Plus, it sounds like you have already talked about it and he is fine with who he is.

On the other hand if I smell bad, dress poorly, have bad manners, or something else changeable and generally bad then I'd certainly appreciate being told and having the chance to change if I so wanted.

I'm more than happy to wear slacks instead of jeans to dinner, but I am not going to change my overall personality.

  • [-]
  • vorpalblab
  • 1 Points
  • 00:36:08, 4 February

Your box tickology is a useful way to mention his many strengths but also to mention you want an assertive man.

I hope you don't actually have a form with tick boxes to mark for any guys you might wanna meet in a romantic getaway. lol

At any rate it might be a good idea to mention to him in a casual way some time that you admire assertive men who take a stand.

See if he perks up and becomes more assertive when you are around.

Us really smart (height irrelevant) guys are used to being somewhat less pushy because we do not wanna anger the crowd, but remain one of the in bunch.

If that becomes the scene you could also menion you would welcome a bit of a more self confident approach to you?

But, frankly Phrankie, from what you say? It ain't gonna work.

But since the phat lady hasn't sung yet, give it a try.

Size tall is harder to find, worth more investment.

  • [-]
  • KazanTheMan
  • 1 Points
  • 00:39:23, 4 February

You know, my gut reaction was to say yes, definitely I'd want to know, but upon thinking deeper upon it, I don't think I'd care.

Barring serious character flaws that might actually be problematic, I honestly don't think I want to know why I'm rejected on a initial approach level. I wouldn't want the sense that "If I changed this about myself, my reward would be dating you," and I'd much rather get a sense of being myself and being liked and dated for who I am, rather than what I made myself to get that.

Now, the question is, would you actually find this person date-able if they were more assertive and confident? Because if you tell him that, there's a chance he's going to try and mold himself into that form, for you.

Honestly, if I were you, I'd just turn him down, chalk it up to not being attracted if he asks; but if you really think him learning to find strength in his own footing in life would help him, encourage him to do that ("You know, you always just agree with whatever is at hand, it's like you're a blank wall. What do you really think? I bet you actually hate x."), as a friend who wants to see her own friends do better in life, and let him pick his own course from there.

  • [-]
  • Im_a_DoctorProfessor
  • 1 Points
  • 00:40:27, 4 February

If it was constructive yes. If it was just picking apart my personality then no.

  • [-]
  • BehindEnemyLines
  • 1 Points
  • 00:49:22, 4 February

Ask him "what's your opinion on that"

  • [-]
  • I_like_to_debate
  • 1 Points
  • 00:51:41, 4 February

No, I don't. It's not truth, it's someone's opinion. If I keep getting rejected, then I want to work it out myself through introspection or trial and error. Otherwise, perhaps it was just that person.

  • [-]
  • skumfcuk
  • 1 Points
  • 01:04:14, 4 February

Yes, I would. It'd suck for a bit that I like you and you don't return those feelings, but I'd want to know why so if they were bad qualities, I could change. My main thing why I'd want to know is so I could change to better myself, not to better myself for you.

You're telling him so he can be better overall for his life, it's different.

  • [-]
  • ifartmeat
  • 1 Points
  • 01:22:34, 4 February

I went on a few dates with a guy. We had little in common but he really liked me. I couldn't continue dating him bc he had severe, severe acne (all over) and combined with the other incompatibilities, I couldn't look past that. Especially since he was a fitness instructor but the acne came from steroid usage. Red flag.

So anyway, I tell him I had a hard time looking past his acne, which seemed to stem for poor hygiene and maybe other things. He replied, "Ok. Well good luck, I can do better."

I understand his reply. It probably seemed shallow. But the underlying issue was that his house was absolutely filthy and he stunk. So I decided not to be a nice girl and break it off over "just not interested" stuff, but I told him directly what the exact reason was, knowing that he woud probably be offended. Oh well. I can only hope that maybe I opened his eyes a bit and that motivated him to clean his filthy shit once in awhile.

  • [-]
  • akatokuro
  • 1 Points
  • 01:31:02, 4 February

Information is power. Even if it doesn't help that relationship, it can help him in further relationships.

And especially in this case, as your friend, you should want him to have as much knowledge as he can for his own benefit.

  • [-]
  • 4forpengs
  • 1 Points
  • 01:37:42, 4 February

To answer the title question, yes.

Addressing the guys passiveness towards you 1 on 1, it may just be because he wants to make you happy by doing what you want to do. It probably makes him happy to see you happy.

  • [-]
  • sockpuppettherapy
  • 1 Points
  • 01:39:27, 4 February

Yes, 100%. I'd like to know where I fall behind on people in the hope that I may improve myself in those aspects, or know where the incompatibility exists. It's very much constructive and helpful.

  • [-]
  • centurijon
  • 1 Points
  • 01:44:00, 4 February

Unequivocally, yes.

And I'm saying that as someone that's gone through a breakup with someone that I cared very much for who didn't give me any reason behind the breakup, and has been through a breakup with someone that I cared very much for that did tell me exactly why.

I'm still friends with one of them. Guess which.

When it's all said and done, rejection sucks. It can even hurt. Now I can deal with hurt, but I am awful at dealing with being confused. I have a need to find answers.

So being direct about why you'd be rejecting me helps in a few ways:

  1. I don't get all worked up wondering "Why?"
  2. It makes me look critically at myself and the reason behind the rejection. Best case, I find something I can improve about myself. Worst case, I realize that we're actually not compatible. Either way, no harm done.
  • [-]
  • baldylox
  • 1 Points
  • 01:49:45, 4 February

No, I wouldn't want or need to hear the real reasoning behind it. It's probably something that I cannot or do not want to change, so who cares?

There's another girl that will go out with me.

I don't see the point in killing yourself wondering why won't she go out with me? Who cares? Move on.

  • [-]
  • fastal_12147
  • 1 Points
  • 01:55:17, 4 February

I'd like to say that I'd like to know, but if I was being perfectly honest, I don't think I could take it. But I guess it depends on how long ago the break-up was.

  • [-]
  • elphinstone
  • 1 Points
  • 02:05:15, 4 February

Yes the whole truth is good, if you dont want to be hurtful you just have to use some tact. I am a snowboard instructor and have been told to give feedback in the form of a "shit sandwich" (unofficial name).

A shit sandwich is where you 1) say something you like/good that they do, 2) say what you dont like/needs improvement, 3) say something else that is good.

  • [-]
  • captainlam
  • 1 Points
  • 02:11:13, 4 February

Is he Japanese? I know Japanese culture is a lot like what you're describing.

  • [-]
  • Quazz
  • 1 Points
  • 02:29:40, 4 February

Just wanted to comment about that guy. He may simply not care and be fine with whatever because he's doing it to hang out with those people. What you do is pretty irrelevant in that regard. But some people have preferences, so what do you do? You ask them what they want to do.

It's not submissive, it's apathy towards the activity as it's the people he's there for and he'll have a good time anyway.

  • [-]
  • Gommers
  • 1 Points
  • 02:43:01, 4 February

I would love to hear the actual reasoning.

I've learned in my time dating that either your right or not for that person, it doesn't really matter why. Sometimes people don't know why, sometimes it's just a vibe, sometimes there are specific reasons. I don't really care about rejection, after 20 or so rejections and dating and going on dates with 6 and being in relationships with 2 I've learned there are worse things than rejection. The reason I'd want to know would be for a purely statistical purpose. Kind of a running joke in my mind, just a way to keep a conversation interesting if it ever became something that I could bring up.

I think it would be hilarious to see the expressions on the faces of the women as they explained it, I mean I'd have amazing respect for them and would legitimately be their friend because one can never know too many quality women, but that pure discomfort explaining it would be the bee's knees.

  • [-]
  • IWCtrl
  • 1 Points
  • 03:05:08, 4 February

I fear some of the explanations would be painfully simple.

  • [-]
  • bjohn2495
  • 1 Points
  • 03:29:33, 4 February

Just tell him the truth, comforting lies suck.

  • [-]
  • MeddygKeegan
  • 1 Points
  • 03:30:49, 4 February

No, I wouldn't want the whole truth; I would like enough information for me to be at peace with your decision, but not so much information that I end up humiliated and resenting you.

Your dilemma of whether to tell him the whole truth falls into the TMI category.

>Also, does adding, "I find you attractive, but..." at the start stick in the boot a bit too much?

Yes.

>It would be worded politely but would be straight forward and along the lines of "I don't think we're compatible because I need someone who can challenge me."

That isn't straight forward and he would have no idea what you're talking about. This is straight forward:

>The deal breaker for me is that he is such a passive and submissive guy that all the other boxes can't make up for it.

  • [-]
  • bluesekai
  • 1 Points
  • 03:37:38, 4 February

Well, I disagree with every comment I've read so far.

I think that regardless of what you think about this guy, the fact is you're not attracted to him ENOUGH. Whatever you SAY is the problem is irrelevant. It sounds like he couldn't change fast enough for you to be attracted to him.

There's nothing wrong with not being attracted to someone enough to want to date them, and he doesn't have a right to demand an explanation from you. I say let sleeping dogs lie. Don't explicitly outline your reasons, attraction is not an equation, it's a feeling, and even if a bunch of pieces are present, it wouldn't necessarily mean your feelings changed.