Any other girls here? :) (self.Anarcho_Capitalism)

{Anarcho_Capitalism}

81 ups - 25 downs = 56 votes

Being a female, I feel I am in the minority among my peers of an-caps and libertarians. Are there any other ladies on this subreddit? Do you ever feel like people take your views less seriously because of your gender? How do you hold your own in situations like these?

249 comments submitted at 20:13:28 on Jul 28, 2013 by dwymer_1991

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -33 Points
  • 21:32:50, 28 July

If you are worried about men not taking you seriously, considering this place shares mods with mensrights you might want to check out actual anarchists at r/anarchism

*not to mention, I have been witness to multiple people here rejecting the idea that women have it harder or aren't listened to as much. I would flee immediately from here as a best course for action.

  • [-]
  • juslen
  • 17 Points
  • 21:41:51, 28 July

What does that have to do with woman not being taken seriously? What do moderators have to do with whether or not women can participate in discussions in this subreddit? Do they delete submissions by women, do they delete comments made by women? Do they dig into your comment history to determine what sex you are? Why wouldn't I take a woman seriously if she has the same views as me? Why else would a woman come here other than to ask questions about anarcho capitalism, to debate anarcho capitalists or to express anarcho capitalist views? Just like everyone else (including men). The last time I checked, ancaps are pretty accepting of other women, minorities and even people with different sexual orientations and preferences. I have no clue why you assume that woman should have to go to another subbreddit to be taken seriously. Maybe I'm missing something?

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -23 Points
  • 21:49:02, 28 July

Well considering every post about race has straight up racist garbage in it, and any post about gender has incredibly sexist garbage in it I would imagine that would be off putting to anyone immediately if they were not white and male.

  • [-]
  • juslen
  • 9 Points
  • 21:55:55, 28 July

I read this subreddit every day. The most I have ever seen are politically incorrect comments which both men and women are guilty of, even people of different races. It should be of no surprise that a subreddit contains people who lack maturity or may say things that you consider to be sexist or racist. I may have missed it, but blatant sexism and racism isn't the norm around here. It's about as prevalent as it is anywhere you go on the internet, especially on reddit. Maybe you are right. Do you have any examples that you could cite or conversations you can recall?

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -15 Points
  • 22:12:38, 28 July

You can literally search this sub for the words "race" and "sexist/ism" and almost every thread you will find something gross. The one I found literally is just the first thing I clicked on under race has a guy who actually declares himself a white separatist. The thread I was hoping to find included a dude who was telling me that people of color are biologically more prone to violence.

Anyhow, a lot of fascists and people with really horrible politics are coming on this board and injecting their ideology to unsuspecting people here in order to grow that movement and attack anarchists.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AnarchoCapitalism/comments/tswr0/justcurioushowmanyofyouguysfocus_on/

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 8 Points
  • 22:17:00, 28 July

>something gross

EWWWW, GUUUHHHH--ROSS--UHHH

Remember, kids, non-violent alternative viewpoints are to be excoriated at every turn.

  • [-]
  • juslen
  • 10 Points
  • 22:54:16, 28 July

Wait, so you will almost always find something gross? That is right in line with what I already mentioned, that you will find these types of people no matter where you go. The example you cited, also contains comments from ancaps that do not have those types of views and claim they denounce them or condemn people who express those views. In fact, in that same discussion, an ancap came out as being transgendered. Let me guess, they are a transgender male.. so that fits into your claims of sexism against woman? And where do you see attacks on anarchism by these people? The last time I checked, anarchists do not agree on everything, and like all human beings, they have different opinions and beliefs on various subjects. Which is why you can find racist black people, racist white people, sexist women, sexist men, racist/sexist/homophobic people of all races, sexes, sexual orientations and political beliefs.

So once again, just because you can find examples of racists or sexists in anarcho_capitalism doesn't mean that this subreddit is dominated by these types of people. By your logic, any time a bad person labels themselves a certain way or visits a particular subreddit to comment, people should avoid that place entirely. While that may be good advice for a place that is dominated by such people, no information that you have given indicates to me that this subreddit is plagued by racists and sexists.

All it tells me is that people are allowed to say racist and sexist things in anarcho_capitalism. I cannot find any moderator rules. But I did find a request.

Moderator requests: Please remain respectful and courteous. So unless you can find examples of people being disrespectful to others, I don't see how bringing up moderation is relevant to whether someone should come here to have discussions and debates with fellow ancaps and their skeptics and or opponents. Unless you can show me a track record of abuses in this subreddit, where people of different races and sexes are being disrespected and attacked based on these biases, I don't see how your statement has any validity in regards to whether or not someone should come here to get involved in discussions about anarcho capitalism.

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -6 Points
  • 23:03:13, 28 July

I'm not sure how much better I can explain it than a guy comes on here, declares he is a nazi and doesn't get down voted into oblivion.

  • [-]
  • juslen
  • 7 Points
  • 23:34:19, 28 July

I can't find any example of someone declaring they are a nazi.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AnarchoCapitalism/comments/tswr0/justcurioushowmanyofyouguysfocus_on/c4pgoyt

Are you referring to that comment? I have no idea what a libertarian nationalist is. That being said, they stated that they believe prisons should be segregated. I don't really view that as a comment deserving of a downvote, but several other people felt otherwise. I personally read comments with negative votes, so I'm not sure how down voting someone really helps anything at least from my perspective. Especially considering most of the comments they made after that had absolutely nothing to do with race. That tells me that someone isn't trying to be disruptive and is actually looking to have a conversation without resorting to strawman arguments and red herrings. Depends on my mood whether or not I downvote people that say things that I don't agree with.

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -7 Points
  • 00:33:05, 29 July

Scroll down to the bottom he declares himself a white supremacist. But it's like this is my point. Most somewhat politically aware people can see this shit from a mile away. You have to ask yourself at some point why the people here either can't tell or don't care.

  • [-]
  • katelin
  • 8 Points
  • 01:18:32, 29 July

He declared himself a white separatist (not the same as a white supremacist) ...and he got downvoted.

From wikipedia (I had to look this up because I was not familiar with the idea of white separatism):

> White separatism in the United States and Western Europe seeks separation and survival of the white race and limits to immigration by non-whites. According to two sociologists writing in the year 2000, most separatists now reject any ideology of white supremacy, though advocacy groups continue to demonize such separatist groups.

IMHO, if people want to separate themselves voluntarily and without the use of violence based on their own (even misguided) beliefs, then I don't see a problem with that.

More Comments - Not Stored
  • [-]
  • juslen
  • 6 Points
  • 01:46:52, 29 July

He doesn't call himself a white supremacist, and your original claim was that he was a nazi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_separatism

As far as I can tell, white separatists simply want to have the right to separate themselves non whites. And I say, more power to them. I'm not going to join them, but I don't see how they shouldn't have the right to separate themselves from other races. And before you call me "nazi" for not wanting to interfere with their prejudices, keep in mind that I think any group of people should have this right. Including people of other races. Does that mean that I agree with their views? No.

That being said. That comment was from a year ago. And it was one of the last comments. And you expect a comment like that to be heavily downvoted? Something similar happens when libertarians and conservatives post "extreme" opinions in regards to economics in places like /r/politics. If I post early enough, I get downvoted to hell. But if I post later in a discussion it's not uncommon for me to get positive votes. The comment you linked me to had a 0. If those types of views are prevalent, why didn't it have a dozen positive votes? Plus that discussion was from a year ago. A quick look on his comment history doesn't raise any red flags that he is a nazi let alone a white separatist. But I guess if I read between the lines I could make that connection. So why do you think that someone who makes comments like that from time to time should have a massive amount of downvotes? Are we supposed to punish him via downvotes even though many of us are not aware that he is a white separatist?

Now that I think of it, I remember reading comments of his in the past where I did downvote him for making racial statements. But it wasn't that big of a deal to me. I didn't associate him with racism by reading all the other posts I have read since then. In fact, I forgot all about it until recently. So is that the best argument you can come up with?

That some white racist who identifies an an ancap, happens to be a white separatist and somehow a lack of downvotes at the bottom of a discussion is proof that woman and minorities should go elsewhere to discuss issues related to anarcho capitalism? Let me repeat myself from earlier. I do not agree with white separatists, but I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to have those types of views and join with other like minded people to exercise their rights to separate themselves from other races. It's not anti anarcho capitalist to have those views. And those views shouldn't get in the way of people like me who don't have those types of views. To each their own, now, if they want to have the state get involved to impose those things upon other people, then I have a major problem.

  • [-]
  • phoenix_insurgent
  • -12 Points
  • 01:08:41, 29 July

Dude, these people aren't going to get it. Yet more proof that they aren't anarchists. What a joke they are.

  • [-]
  • phoenix_insurgent
  • -13 Points
  • 23:39:36, 28 July

True words. Literally these guys line up with fascists. Seriously, if ancaps had existed during the old days, we'd have been shooting at each other in Spain, Russia, during the height of the labor movement in the US, in Mexico... Such reactionaries.

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 7 Points
  • 21:55:37, 28 July

Or that they're not hysterical, fragile minds.

Hang in there, champ. It's going to be all right.

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -12 Points
  • 22:01:12, 28 July

This guy who has said some straight up neo-fascist type crap is a great example of why I wouldn't suggest coming here.

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 6 Points
  • 22:06:40, 28 July

lol

Your fear of me is a turn on.

  • [-]
  • riplox
  • 9 Points
  • 22:31:14, 28 July

It was your privilege.

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -2 Points
  • 22:27:54, 28 July

I think if there was a list of people and things I actually fear 'a Reddit user' would probably be last

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 4 Points
  • 22:37:15, 28 July

Chill to and enjoy some clams, friend.

  • [-]
  • riplox
  • 3 Points
  • 23:13:28, 28 July

Dude. That mixtape's pretty rad. Thanks for the link.

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 3 Points
  • 23:27:28, 28 July

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhtEG75fnLE

https://soundcloud.com/gud-2/hello

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVtHAq4RnpU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp03B8zicco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqxKY58Hhk0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Sn8n0DOs4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rY1eYt4sRQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6U3ls0-9fM

  • [-]
  • phoenix_insurgent
  • -14 Points
  • 22:06:11, 28 July

Yeah. That dude is a straight up fascist. Maybe people should take some time asking why a fascist would be attracted to this ideology. I mean, anyone who's studied American fascist groups knows that their politics and economic vision basically is the same as ancappery.

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 10 Points
  • 22:12:39, 28 July

>straight up ... I mean, anyone who's studied knows

More hysterical language.

Wake me up when adult talk begins.

  • [-]
  • phoenix_insurgent
  • -13 Points
  • 22:26:48, 28 July

>hysterical

^^ Sexist language. Yet another example. See, you don't have to push these guys too much until the real shit starts coming out. Note he ignores the content because he knows it's true. As a step towards being taken seriously, /r/anarcho_capitalism should ban this fascist. When y'all claim to be anarchists and yet fraternize with fascists, you are seriously undermining your case.

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 15 Points
  • 22:28:56, 28 July

>^ Sexist language.

Haha, a talented troll.

/hattip

  • [-]
  • wetalkinbigmoney
  • 11 Points
  • 00:36:20, 29 July

I feel that this response is sexist in itself. Because the OP is a girl, she suddenly isn't certain in her beliefs? She stated in her original post that she considers ancaps and libertarians her peers. Clearly she considers herself one of the two.

It's almost like you assume that, because she is female, she's not strong in her ancap beliefs and that she could be so easily convinced to switch to anarchism.

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -12 Points
  • 01:11:13, 29 July

So what's sexist, you pushing female stereotypes or me not being sexist?

  • [-]
  • wetalkinbigmoney
  • 11 Points
  • 01:22:51, 29 July

When have I ever pushed female stereotypes?

Are you just assuming I do because I am subbed to an ancap sub?

Edit: Why haven't you answered? When have I ever pushed stereotypes? When?

  • [-]
  • VJL110
  • 9 Points
  • 23:13:53, 28 July

Thankfully not all women want to embrace 'being a victim' as a core piece of their self-image, then get together online with other 'victims' from stable first-world families to roll around in eachothers' shared victimhood.

  • [-]
  • MyGogglesDoNothing
  • 6 Points
  • 00:02:33, 29 July

Victimhood ideologies are a bane on this earth. They are much more dangerous and destructive than given credit for. Fuck their proponents.

  • [-]
  • Beetle559
  • 17 Points
  • 22:14:13, 28 July

If I remember correctly, she actually got threatened with violence in r/anarchism....

  • [-]
  • AnarchoHeathen
  • 12 Points
  • 22:17:05, 28 July

So let me see if I understand, you have invited an ancap to r/anarchism where she will be dismissed as "not an anarchist"... I am still marginalized and I'm a mutualist.

  • [-]
  • riplox
  • 3 Points
  • 02:22:15, 29 July

If you dislike this sub so much, why do you hang around? You a masochist or something?

  • [-]
  • dwymer_1991
  • 3 Points
  • 05:27:34, 29 July

I don't think it's a good idea for me to head to /r/anarchism XD I made a bad name for myself there. I mean that usually, when I talk to other people who share my views, they tend to be men, and most of them don't really think I know what I'm talking about. The worst offender is actually my boyfriend, believe it or not. I can offer him advice or knowledge, but he won't really consider it until one of his guy friend repeats it -_- my older brother is pretty bad about it, too, but he's just an asshole in general.

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -2 Points
  • 05:43:55, 29 July

Unfortunately that's how patriarchy works, it sucks when dudes write it off. I mean, I was trolling since I knew posting that would rile everyone up. But in all honestly, I see so many people even on this thread that just want to deny they have any responsibility.

That is my big problem with ancappery really. I feel like it's an ideology that's easy for people to claim and feel good about themselves for. Unfortunately, it makes it really easy to ignore actually really difficult problems in the world that you actually have culpability in. It's like all you have to say is; lets get the "government" out of our lives and then everything will be perfect. And really, that's just not gonna happen.

There is a reason there is no critique of social issues or really anything societal over on this sub.

  • [-]
  • SarionFetecuse1
  • 1 Points
  • 05:52:45, 29 July

I deny the official story of the holocaust, I am a white separatist, I am against multiculturalism, if somebody discriminates by race in a private establishment even my race that is within their right to do so. I'm pro-MGTOW, pro-MRA, and I subscribed to /r/TheRedPill which is /r/mra x2. And I'm a neo-fuedal crypto-fascist anarcho capitalist, and I believe in leaving you alone.

I edited out my grammer errors.

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -3 Points
  • 05:55:22, 29 July

you should do an AMA here with that as the title.

If you ancaps are too stupid to read what I am responding to and understand what I am talking about in terms of fascists trying to interject their ideology into your cause than you simply aren't gonna get it.

And no, you aren't an anarchist. You are a fascist.

  • [-]
  • SarionFetecuse1
  • 2 Points
  • 06:14:48, 29 July

>And I'm a neo-fuedal crypto-fascist

I think if you didn't understand the humor in that you are an idiot. I'm not responding to what you've said, it's on par with the ravings of a lunatic.

The laughable part of left controlled anarchism, you deny that Mao killed 76,000,000 million people. But defend the 6,000,000 million people killed crafted by the Soviets. Not to mention you think I have sympathies with a single fascist, Mussolini, Hitler, as they are tyrants willing to initiate violence to reach their own ends. And labeling me with such is exactly like the blind-folded labeling of racism on anybody "white" who questions the multicultural narrative support by our government.

The left is the modern church, you either demonize, or victimize. You do not construct rational arguments, but construct complex labyrinths of catchy rhetorical slogans.

  • [-]
  • exiledarizona
  • -3 Points
  • 06:45:01, 29 July

lol ok bro, i get it, i know what you are trying to do. This isn't my first rodeo. I'd rather not engage with people like you and just post over and over on here that scum like you are trying to recruit here. It works better.

  • [-]
  • SarionFetecuse1
  • 1 Points
  • 07:43:49, 29 July

And your purpose thus proves my point in its entirety.

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 0 Points
  • 21:54:35, 28 July

WELL

CONSIDERING

HOW CAN YOU

OMG

I DON'T EVEN

  • [-]
  • phoenix_insurgent
  • -24 Points
  • 21:38:18, 28 July

Yeah. Gender, sexism and patriarchy are things that anarchists pay a lot of attention to. Ancaps? Not so much. They seem to mostly hate women. The mensrights shit is a prime example.

  • [-]
  • Chimes_of_Freedom
  • 5 Points
  • 00:03:41, 29 July

>They seem to mostly hate women.

Do you any evidence to support this claim?

>The mensrights shit is a prime example.

If you are implying that /r/mensrights hates women, do you have any evidence of this?

>Gender, sexism and patriarchy are things that anarchists pay a lot of attention to. Ancaps? Not so much.

I agree with this. Can you draw any meaningful conclusions from this that actually follow a line of reasoning or are supported by some kinda of evidence?

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 7 Points
  • 21:58:53, 28 July

I'm so glad this is a straightforward issue.

If you don't agree with me, you're satan.

More sophisticated worldviews are for suckers, amirite?

  • [-]
  • phoenix_insurgent
  • -10 Points
  • 22:16:43, 28 July

You're a straightforward issue.

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 12 Points
  • 22:21:02, 28 July

I'll admit it. You got me.

  • [-]
  • riplox
  • 4 Points
  • 02:27:28, 29 July

Feminism and Men's Rights are both couched in socialism/collectivism and seek to levy the power of the State to "fix" their perceived problems (i.e. force their views on others). That doesn't really mesh all that well with anarcho-capitalism since the philosophy doesn't really support the whole State or collective thing. Also, like I asked exiledarizona, if you dislike this sub so much, why do you hang around? It's not like you're forced to be here or are penalized or prevented from going elsewhere (I'm not suggesting or telling you to leave, just asking a question).

  • [-]
  • usernameliteral
  • 9 Points
  • 22:01:54, 28 July

Yes, it is well known that anarcho-capitalists hate women. In fact, if you read the footnotes in the chapter in For A New Liberty wherein Rothbard describes the non-aggression principle, you will see that the NAP actually has an exception for women, which is why wife-beating men are so attracted to anarcho-capitalism.

  • [-]
  • Mooginator
  • -2 Points
  • 22:30:57, 28 July

Provide proof for this outrageous claim. Page number and edition?

  • [-]
  • riplox
  • 7 Points
  • 23:05:25, 28 July

I think you need to go down to your local electronics shop and see about recalibrating your sarcasm detector. It seems to be a bit off.

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 3 Points
  • 23:04:10, 28 July

doh!

  • [-]
  • Mooginator
  • -3 Points
  • 23:06:17, 28 July

He has upvotes. Is this claim true?

  • [-]
  • ArchonAlarion
  • 12 Points
  • 23:10:15, 28 July

Yes, page number 420, edition no. 69.

  • [-]
  • Mooginator
  • 7 Points
  • 23:42:07, 28 July

Ah fuck me :)

  • [-]
  • ancapfreethinker
  • 1 Points
  • 05:43:10, 29 July

LOL

  • [-]
  • ex_logica
  • 2 Points
  • 23:26:24, 28 July

>Is this claim true?

Obviously.

No other alternative is possible, or do you take us for nincompoops?

  • [-]
  • usernameliteral
  • 1 Points
  • 07:12:20, 29 July

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist mocking him.

  • [-]
  • SarionFetecuse1
  • 2 Points
  • 06:12:04, 29 July

This reminds me of how in you claim anything but equal rights is "hating women", but you want preferential treatment of woman in reality.

There are far less business created by women not because they are oppressed, but because they are less biologically inclined to take risks. It's simply a biological imperative that was favored through natural selection. You cannot call us sexist for stating objective facts because you don't like what is being stated.

This is true for radical ideas such as anarcho capitalism, women do have generally benefited from formulating new ideas. I am not saying as an absolute no women ever will be an ancap, it's they are less inclined to do so.

Feminism, left controlled anarchism, cultural-marxism, is becoming a stale subject with it's inhabitants become increasing irrational, and stuck in their void abstractions.

  • [-]
  • fuckthisindustry
  • 2 Points
  • 22:03:03, 28 July

lol