Israel to erect pink-triangle monument to gays persecuted by Nazis. World War II experts estimate that 5,000 to 15,000 gay prisoners were sent to Nazi concentration camps. death rate of homosexuals in concentration camps may have been as high as 60%. (sdgln.com)

ainbow

290 ups - 28 downs = 262 votes

121 comments submitted at 00:55:28 on Aug 21, 2013 by FYoung

  • [-]
  • baked-potato
  • -19 Points
  • 02:57:06, 21 August

Fuck their pink washing. Solidarity with the Palestinians who are victims of Israel's ongoing genocide. The continued ideological use of the holocaust to justify or obscure ethnic cleansing is sickening, and an insult. Oppressed groups should stand together in solidarity with each others struggles, which is why all LGBTI activists should be supporting the Palestinians 100%, and resisting bullshit like this.

  • [-]
  • RLMadd
  • 10 Points
  • 03:44:49, 21 August

Yes and I'm sure the Palestinians are white cloaked angels that do no wrong...

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • 4 Points
  • 04:00:15, 21 August

Nor were all the jews and gays murdered by the Nazis.

That doesn't mean they should be systematically persecuted and denied their liberty.

  • [-]
  • baked-potato
  • -2 Points
  • 04:34:27, 21 August

Nor we're the Jews, gays, and Roma who resisted the Nazis. I guess their murders were ok, considering this?

  • [-]
  • RLMadd
  • 5 Points
  • 05:12:47, 21 August

I'm speaking in context of now, You didn't see gays and jews killing people with car bombs and suicide bombers now did you?

  • [-]
  • baked-potato
  • -3 Points
  • 05:25:26, 21 August

Nope, but I've seen kids with their heads blown open by IDF bullets.

  • [-]
  • RLMadd
  • 6 Points
  • 06:03:43, 21 August

So there are atrocities on both sides of the conflict what makes the Israel any more sinister then the Palestinians? or am I wrong in thinking that Israeli children aren't killed as well as Palestinian children?

  • [-]
  • RevolutionaryTurmiol
  • 21 Points
  • 03:50:42, 21 August

Do you really think that the Palestinians are going to want to stand together with the LGBT movement? They're Arab Muslims - most of them would want homosexuality criminalized, so if they ever do get their own state, I highly doubt it will be LGBT-friendly.

It's surprising to me, but just judging from this, it looks like the Israelis are coming around at least a little bit, even if it is pinkwashing.

Guys, this is the Middle-East. It's the worst place in the world for LGBT people, and Israel is erecting a fucking monument dedicated to homosexuals! I say we just accept the kind acknowledgement and if you're a supporter of Palestine then keep that up; a monument is no reason to abandon your beliefs.

  • [-]
  • baked-potato
  • -2 Points
  • 04:24:33, 21 August

Yes. Every Palestinian I know is pro-queer rights. I know many are not, just as many black South Africans resisting Apartheid were not, but this is no reason for us to support a GENOCIDE against them! LGBTI support and pressure did the trick in getting the ANC to support queer rights while fighting Apartheid, and I advocate a similar strategy here. Your assertion that Arabs do not, would not, or could not support queer rights is racist.

Israel is an Apartheid state. The Palestinians are on the receiving end of a genocide. If you would support a state like this because they built a statue, you're inhumane. The oppressed should side with the oppressed, not the oppressors.

  • [-]
  • Itsallbolshevik
  • 14 Points
  • 05:23:38, 21 August

>Every Palestinian I know is pro-queer rights.

Really? I'd like to know who you know in Palestine. Generally, Palestine is not pro-queer. Please remember that Hamas is half of the political entity of Palestine and I would laugh at the idea that they are even vaguely queer tolerant. Palestine has a problem with honor killings and violations of women's rights. I think that while a few net-savvy Palestinians might be pro-queer rights, the political majority are not at all pro-queer rights.

It's not a case of racism. I might also say that Uganda isn't pro-queer rights. You can dig up 10,000 Ugandans who are willing to tattoo a rainbow flag on their foreheads. That doesn't mean that the political entity of Uganda is anything but monstrous on queer rights. That's not racism. That's political reality.

  • [-]
  • RevolutionaryTurmiol
  • 7 Points
  • 05:36:24, 21 August

What on earth are you on about? I said that if you are a supporter of Palestine then don't let a monument change your beliefs, but just because Israel builds a monument dedicated to us doesn't mean that you have to criticize it. This isn't just one single person doing all these actions at once - it's a countless amount of people with different views and focuses, over many generations. If Israel decided to ship foreign aid to those starving in Somalia, should we then criticize those actions because of how the Israelis have treated the Palestinians?

EDIT - I accidently destroyed half of my sentences.

  • [-]
  • Vexillae
  • 7 Points
  • 09:27:57, 21 August

>GENOCIDE

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

  • [-]
  • Gehbstemmer
  • 3 Points
  • 12:59:15, 21 August

If the Israelis are committing genocide against the Palestinians, they're doing a pretty shitty job of it.

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • -4 Points
  • 04:02:12, 21 August

The problem here is that it's hypocrisy.

Oh no when some gays get murdered, but we're going to systematically wipe out the Palestinians in their homeland, persecute them as a subclass of people, repopulate their land with our people, and deny them the state that they have just as much a right to as Israel, if not more.

It's great Israel is doing this, but it's complete hypocrisy.

  • [-]
  • notmynothername
  • 9 Points
  • 03:47:20, 21 August

You can accuse Israel of a lot of things, but ethnic cleansing is one of the less coherent ones.

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • 0 Points
  • 04:03:18, 21 August

....Except when they systematically eliminate Palestinians from their homeland by capturing their territory, moving in israelis to occupied territory, persecuting palestinians as a subclass of human not deserving of their liberty and political sovereignty.

  • [-]
  • notmynothername
  • 7 Points
  • 04:15:15, 21 August

Every ethnicity found among Palestinians is also found among Israelis.

  • [-]
  • ihateirony
  • -2 Points
  • 08:05:59, 21 August

They are treated as second class citizens though within Israel. People racialised as Jewish have a lot more opportunities in Israel than other groups.

Edit: autocorrect

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • -13 Points
  • 04:33:49, 21 August

And Hitler was part jewish.

  • [-]
  • notmynothername
  • 6 Points
  • 04:39:22, 21 August

When Hitler was doing his ethnic cleansing, he actually got rid of the targeted people who lived in the country he ran.

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • -1 Points
  • 04:43:57, 21 August

That doesn't mean that palestinians aren't systemically being persecuted and that their homeland is being eradicated.

And killed, detained, imprisoned daily.

  • [-]
  • notmynothername
  • 6 Points
  • 04:48:08, 21 August

I'm in agreement, with the exception of the obviously unserious "eradicated." It's not ethnic cleansing, though.

  • [-]
  • Gehbstemmer
  • 2 Points
  • 13:03:34, 21 August

The majority of people being killed, detained, and imprisoned are attempting to murder civilians.

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • 1 Points
  • 14:26:23, 21 August

And Israel doesn't kill Palestinian civilians all the time?

They move their citizens into a warzone so they can expand their territory and use it as an excuse.

  • [-]
  • Gehbstemmer
  • 1 Points
  • 14:35:14, 21 August

Israel, as a country, never kills civilians deliberately.

More Comments - Not Stored
  • [-]
  • Gehbstemmer
  • 3 Points
  • 13:01:47, 21 August

There is truth in what you say, but in terms of treatment of ethnic Arabs within israel it's often said that Palestinians have a better quality of life there than in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon or Egypt.

That doesn't fix the west Bank, but it does provide some perspective.

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • 1 Points
  • 14:13:23, 21 August

Well of course they do.

The palestinians are a distinct nationality, and no country wants to accept a large group of refugees. It's a strain on the system.

I don't think it provides any perspective, and actually supports the argument for a two state solution.

  • [-]
  • Gehbstemmer
  • 1 Points
  • 14:53:44, 21 August

Considering they're predominantly refugees of the same ethnicity and religion, speaking the same dialect of Levantine Arabic, I would expect their host countries to treat them as brothers.

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • 1 Points
  • 14:56:51, 21 August

Why should they have to?

Americans wouldn't want half of the UK coming in as refugees with extensive needs.

  • [-]
  • Vexillae
  • 2 Points
  • 09:29:56, 21 August

Israel is not the Palestinian homeland. The ancestors of the Palestinian people are from Arabia. However, Judaism was founded in Israel, so Israel is the home of the Jews.

  • [-]
  • Gehbstemmer
  • 3 Points
  • 13:04:33, 21 August

Zionism isn't the best argument against the staunchly anti-Israel crowd. Just a gentle reminder.

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • 1 Points
  • 14:23:11, 21 August

I'm not Anti-Israeli, I'm Anti-Imperialism.

  • [-]
  • Gehbstemmer
  • 1 Points
  • 14:36:05, 21 August

And so am I.

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • 1 Points
  • 14:22:10, 21 August

Genetically, this is completely false.

Jews are overwhelmingly European and Palestinians are genetically from....Palestine.

Just because Palestinians speak Arabic says little about their ancestral homeland, and even if it did: The jews left. Palestinians have been in the area for thousands and thousands of years.

You know what was also founded in the area? Christianity. Is Israel now the home of the Christians?

  • [-]
  • baked-potato
  • -5 Points
  • 04:31:44, 21 August

I forgot to be coherent when I saw houses demolished, settlements built, children with their heads blown open, forcibly sterilized women, burned farmlands, indefinite detention, and hundreds of thousands of refugees. Oops.

  • [-]
  • notmynothername
  • 6 Points
  • 04:32:29, 21 August

Like I said:

>You can accuse Israel of a lot of things, but ethnic cleansing is one of the less coherent ones.

  • [-]
  • AiwassAeon
  • -33 Points
  • 03:14:12, 21 August

Fuck those towelheads. They hate you and you keep on defending them.

  • [-]
  • ObjectiveTits
  • 9 Points
  • 04:08:28, 21 August

The problem with "them" is that you're using blanket terms to condemn an entire people. The first person I came out to was persian and her family threw me a friggen party and let me live with them. I get the anger, I really do, I feel the same about a lot of countries, but we can't just shotgun our anger at anyone that's part of a single ethnic or racial group, and I think your use of a common and hurtful ethnic slur just lowers you to the level of other bigots.

  • [-]
  • AiwassAeon
  • 1 Points
  • 14:00:42, 21 August

Persians=/= Palestinians.

  • [-]
  • baked-potato
  • 9 Points
  • 03:17:11, 21 August

Fuck racists. You are a disgusting piece of shit.

Sadly, racism, and upvoted racism, is something I've come to accept as standard for this subreddit.

  • [-]
  • Gehbstemmer
  • 4 Points
  • 13:05:09, 21 August

Look again, mang

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • 3 Points
  • 04:05:34, 21 August

If you want to eliminate homophobia and discrimination, you educate people and raise their standards of living.

Of course people cling to their religion when their house is gone, their country is destroyed, and they're systematically persecuted. That's all they've got.

  • [-]
  • Vexillae
  • 1 Points
  • 09:31:05, 21 August

>their country is destroyed

What are you talking about? Israel is one of the only thriving countries in the Middle East, and if the Palestinians ran it, it would be turned to shit.

  • [-]
  • thomashc
  • 1 Points
  • 14:24:51, 21 August

Israel isn't shit because of absolutely massive US aid.

And oh please, It's not like Jordan and Dubai are shitholes.

Take your racism elsewhere.

  • [-]
  • SqueakerBot
  • 2 Points
  • 11:06:29, 21 August

"England is one of the only thriving countries in Britain, and if the Muslims ran it, it would be turned to shit."

"The United States is one of the only thriving countries in North America, and if the Mexicans ran it, it would be turned to shit."

You'd probably never say either of these things, and the first part of each sentence is debatable. So why would you think it's ok to ignore the other thriving countries in the Middle East and say that if members of country A tried running country B it would be bad?

  • [-]
  • AiwassAeon
  • 1 Points
  • 14:01:48, 21 August

Dubai is fairly successful.

  • [-]
  • SqueakerBot
  • 1 Points
  • 14:36:43, 21 August

As is Saudi Arabia.