Thunderfoot: Why 'Feminism' is poisoning Atheism (Part 5) (youtube.com)

{AgainstAtheismPlus}

45 ups - 9 downs = 36 votes

43 comments submitted at 05:20:05 on Aug 30, 2013 by morris198

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -21 Points
  • 13:52:15, 30 August

I agreed until TF said that he preferred the obnoxious loudmouth that is Penn Jillette to a thousand PZ Myers.

PZ Myers is incredibly annoying and sometimes even unethical, but Jillette is far worse. They're not even in the same ballpark.

  • [-]
  • fartbone
  • 23 Points
  • 14:06:08, 30 August

Yeah, Jillette is a huge success and actually has intelligent things to say.

  • [-]
  • zergl1ng
  • 9 Points
  • 14:23:04, 30 August

I like PJ. At least he admits to being an obnoxious loudmouth and is very humble in his own way. Read (or listen to) his two books on atheism. They're entertaining as fuck.

  • [-]
  • fartbone
  • 16 Points
  • 15:02:40, 30 August

The worst thing you can you say about PJ is you disagree with a lot of what he thinks. He's never done anything (to my knowlege) unethical or in bad faith. I'd take a single honest person over a million dishonest ones.

  • [-]
  • ThisIsProbablyStupid
  • 6 Points
  • 15:43:33, 30 August

Feckin hell, I was reading both your comments there as PZ instead of PJ and nearly lost my shit.

  • [-]
  • ddxxdd
  • 4 Points
  • 20:07:21, 30 August

I respect Penn Jilette. I disagree with a lot of what he says, but I respect how he goes about making his points. If I ever were to debate him, it would be a respectful debate instead of a "WTF is wrong with you" kinda of debate like with the plussers.

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -1 Points
  • 23:49:02, 30 August

> but I respect how he goes about making his points.

Yeah, we should really respect those who call other people assholes, constantly use straw men, bring their own uneducated biases into every topic, and conveniently cherry pick all the arguments, valid or otherwise, in order to persuade people. It is also completely intellectually honest to approach research on a "Hey guys, come over to my side, because the other side is lame and dumb!" basis. Pandering to an already like-minded audience by superficially mocking the broad caricatures you have constructed to represent the opposing side is a prime example of critical thinking! We should also always respect people who never let worrisome facts or disconcerting contradictory evidence interfere with their rabid, mindless, self-serving tantrums.

>If I ever were to debate him, it would be a respectful debate instead of a "WTF is wrong with you" kinda of debate like with the plussers.

Even many of the plussers have better manners than Jillette.

  • [-]
  • AnotherUberfeminist
  • 3 Points
  • 01:58:54, 31 August

So which topic do you disagree with Penn on?

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • 0 Points
  • 02:18:45, 31 August

I've already summarized my gripes here: http://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstAtheismPlus/comments/1ldt47/thunderfootwhyfeminismispoisoning_atheism/cbygd5k

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -5 Points
  • 16:21:42, 30 August

>is very humble in his own way

Oh I see how it works. When any other person insults people and screams at them in a fanatical frenzy, then he is a lunatic. However, when Jillette does it, then he is very humble in his own way.

  • [-]
  • btvsrcks
  • -1 Points
  • 19:25:06, 2 September

He is a sexist pig.

  • [-]
  • morris198
  • 1 Points
  • 22:58:31, 2 September

... and you're an idiot.

And the reasoning for my condemnation is that you've in no way supported your claim. You should feel free to prove my claim wrong by supporting yours.

  • [-]
  • btvsrcks
  • 1 Points
  • 17:18:47, 3 September

Because he made the following statement.

"What a remarkably stupid cunt"

  • [-]
  • morris198
  • 0 Points
  • 17:22:48, 3 September

Really? So someone saying, "What a remarkably stupid dick" is also a sexist pig? Or is it only bad when female anatomy is used?

  • [-]
  • zergl1ng
  • 0 Points
  • 18:10:12, 3 September

Here's how the reasoning goes:

Saying "cunt" is sexist.

Rape is sexist.

Therefore saying "cunt" makes you a potential rapist.

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -16 Points
  • 14:11:01, 30 August

I roll my eyes so hard the foundation of my house is about to crack.

  • [-]
  • morris198
  • 8 Points
  • 15:48:28, 30 August

If I'm not mistaken, you're the bloke who said he thought libertarians were worse than fascists, so I can definitely understand why you hate Jillette more than Myers... but I suspect your position is going to be a tough sell to anyone else around here.

  • [-]
  • bnzss
  • 7 Points
  • 15:26:31, 30 August

How is he worse?

I'm genuinely interested.

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -4 Points
  • 16:10:46, 30 August

He has absolutely no intellectual rigour. He was once the host a show called Bullshit!, which tried to expose myths, misconceptions and lies, most notably the one which posits that Jillette is a credible skeptic. The recipe for each episode consisted of showing quote-mined video clips of some guy rambling on about a certain topic, at which point Penn proceeds to yell "Fuck you!", while Teller makes funny faces in the background. Their episode on animal rights was the biggest nonsense I've ever seen on TV. Every single "expert" in that episode was a lobbyist from the Center for Consumer Freedom which is one of the worlds largest lobbyist groups for meat, fast-food, tobacco and alcohol.

Jillette claims to be in favor of science, but he quickly abandons the scientific method when it is inconvenient to his childish political agenda. In a Bullshit! episode about global warming, for instance, Penn shows an old Time Magazine from the 70s to the audience. According to the headline, scientists predicted an impending ice age. If the wizard and his crew were intellectually honest, they would have mentioned that none of the scientists in the article actually predicted an impending ice age. It was just a sensationalized headline. I guess science is great if it's used against religion, but evil if it's used against big business, because the free market is a perfect system (here, look at some tits if you aren't convinced). Jillette has even said that South Park is "the strongest force for critical thinking on television" for crying out loud!

People have to realize that Jillette is a pseudo-skeptic who spreads a consciously slapped together potpourri of unsubstantiated mis- and disinformation, spiced with some good old stupidity. His "philosophy" is an agenda driven propaganda. Jillette is a dishonest, unethical, self-absorbed egomaniac. His existence is the epitome of everything that is wrong in the world right now.

He is a man who would "kill every chimp in the world, with [his] bare hands, to save one street junkie...with AIDS." This isn't surprising because he has often admitted on his radio show that he is a speciesist.

He is a fan of Ayn Rand and shares her pitiless, one-sided, mechanical view of the world, which elevates the rights of property over everything else. Dressed up as freedom, his favorite "philosophy" (i.e. libertarianism) is a formula for oppression and bondage. It does nothing to address inequality, hardship or social exclusion. Jillette has a transparently self-serving view of the world, and seeks to justify his greedy and selfish behavior by arguments that are no better than those of theologians. He may not believe in God as a law-giver, but he believes in magical Natural Rights and the infallible Free Market.

I will never understand why some atheists hold Jillette in a high status. Is he somehow an expert in all things atheism because he can yell and spaz? The fact that a magician whose formal education is limited to Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey Clown College (really) is held up as some intellectual heavyweight is embarassing for the atheist movement. Jillette is a critical thinker in the same way that my cat is a nuclear physicist. He's a Glenn Beck nuthugger of the worst kind and should be treated as such.

Penn Jillette is just plain awful.

  • [-]
  • Jacksambuck
  • 5 Points
  • 17:06:25, 30 August

> His existence is the epitome of everything that is wrong in the world right now.

Would you say he's Lucifer, or just his main minion?

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -2 Points
  • 17:21:23, 30 August

I never understood what's so bad about Lucifer. He seems like a cool guy. Jillette, on the other hand, is like a fat present-day version of Stirner. I hate him.

  • [-]
  • ThisIsProbablyStupid
  • 6 Points
  • 19:03:03, 30 August

Quite the rant there, nice to see you think a Vegas magician is worse than Kim Jong Il.

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -2 Points
  • 19:27:16, 30 August

Kim Jong Il (or rather his father) had enough power and support to achieve some of his crazy goals.

You are right that Jillette is a pathetic magician who doesn't have the power to implement his disgusting ideas. However, his views are nevertheless incredibly immoral and his support for certain policies actually does some real damage.

When we judge somebody's character, we shouldn't just look at his actions. A fameless paraplegic will probably never hurt anybody (because he can't), but that doesn't mean that all fameless paraplegics are necessarily good people. Some of them are just as wicked as a healthy criminal and, if they had the ability to do so, would do a lot of bad things.

  • [-]
  • ThisIsProbablyStupid
  • 3 Points
  • 19:38:43, 30 August

What the hell did Jillette do to you, this is a completely delusional level of hatred.

Did he eat your last piece of bacon or something?

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -3 Points
  • 19:40:39, 30 August

I just wrote 6 paragraphs that describe why I hate him. Do you still need more info?

  • [-]
  • ThisIsProbablyStupid
  • 3 Points
  • 21:03:25, 30 August

You are personalising a lot of things where there is absolutely no reason to. Jillette has never directly harmed you at all but yet you literally think he is the worst person in the world. I would urge you to think about who it really is you are angry with because this is clearly a case of misplaced rage.

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -3 Points
  • 21:29:34, 30 August

You're starting to sound like the same kind of selfish bastard that Jillette is. Why would I dislike somebody if he hasn't directly harmed me? Because I care about morally relevant issues, not just myself.

Are you familiar with the so called "Construal Level Theory"? According to this theory, people have two distinct modes of thinking: "near mode" and "far more". Thinking about things that are near in space, time, social distance or level of abstraction promotes more self-interested behavior. Priming a subject to think about the big picture and large-scale abstract concepts, such as human civilization, societal bonds, or technological progress incites social behavior. Guys like Jillette and other libertarians/anarchists seem to be mostly stuck in the 'near mode'. They only care about themselves and that's why they lack a moral sense. They don't seem to have the ability to truly acknowledge other living beings as having purposes and interests that one can help, or at least not hinder, and that this should restrain or direct one's behavior.

This is probably why Jillette's philosophy has all the emotional and intellectual depth of a two-year old's temper tantrum: "MINE!!!"

  • [-]
  • ThisIsProbablyStupid
  • 2 Points
  • 22:48:30, 30 August

Yeah I think that's all a load of bollocks too, but do you know what I'm going to do about it? Nothing, ignore it because it's not a big fucking deal.

You on the other hand are letting it control your life and are ridiculously angry because of it. Good luck with that in the future, I used to be that way, I'm glad I caught myself on.

More Comments - Not Stored
  • [-]
  • AnotherUberfeminist
  • 1 Points
  • 02:00:53, 31 August

>Jillette has even said that South Park is "the strongest force for critical thinking on television" for crying out loud!

You really think another show is better? Let me guess, you want to sleep with the entire cast of Mythbusters

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -2 Points
  • 02:16:41, 31 August

South Park is an incurious person's idea of what biting social commentary and scathing irony would look like. Take the Al Gore episode for example. Thanks to South Park, about a decade of online discussion on climate change was derailed by LOL MANBEARPIG SUPER SERIAL. So, I'm sure climate scientists everywhere appreciate how the show advanced "critical thinking".

  • [-]
  • AnotherUberfeminist
  • 2 Points
  • 02:22:04, 31 August

The show makes fun of everybody. You might have a hard time understanding that because you take yourself so super cereal.

South Park style advice: If you go on reddit, and you're super cereal, you're going to have a bad time.

  • [-]
  • anarchists_R_enemies
  • -2 Points
  • 02:25:19, 31 August

>The show makes fun of everybody.

The show is Parker's and Stone's soap box, nothing more. What they're doing essentially mirrors the behavior of a 13-year-old kid: everything is gay, everyone is stupid, nothing offends me, and I don't give a shit.

>South Park style advice: If you go on reddit, and you're super cereal, you're going to have a bad time.

Spouting hackneyed cultural references is your idea of critical thinking?