What does /r/AskWomen make of Elizabeth Raine selling her virginity? (self.AskWomen)

{AskWomen}

43 ups - 16 downs = 27 votes

I read this story not too long ago, and am curious as to AskWomen's opinion on the matter. Elizabeth Raine, a medical student here in the UK is selling her virginity to the highest bidder - the story is here.

128 comments submitted at 13:07:31 on Apr 8, 2014 by Benjajinj

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 109 Points
  • 13:12:37, 8 April

She can do what she wants. I think the men bidding on her are so incredibly, unbelievably, laughably pathetic that it makes me question the entirety of humanity. But good on her for making a little money off a horde of sad sacks.

That being said, I have no idea how this isn't prostitution and how they all aren't being pinged for sex crimes. It isn't legal in the UK, is it? Edit: Apparently it's not. I also don't have a problem with prostitution - but it seemed weird to me that this wasn't being halted by some sort of laws regarding selling sex.

I'll add the entire debacle to my list of reasons why virginity is an overhyped social construct that needs to go the way of the dodo.

Edit: Parts of the article making me sigh.

> even offering to undertake a medical examination to provide evidence of her virginity.

She better hope she hasn't ridden a horse or used a tampon or stretched the wrong way or was born without a fully-formed hymen or a plethora of other things that might make this complicated for her. Or, you know, that the bad fairy who curses your innards after having sex hasn't prematurely left her mark, because virginity is magic.

> she also discusses the possibility of somehow "being led into the arms of a gentleman" in the form of the winning bidder

I know my dreamy Prince Charming sits around throwing millions of dollars at women's hymens. Mmmm. I know youuuuu I danced with you once upon a dreaaaaam. I know you, the gleam in your eeeeyes is such a creepy motherfucking gleam what the fuck are you thinking?

  • [-]
  • countchocula86
  • 37 Points
  • 14:04:10, 8 April

> I know my dreamy Prince Charming sits around throwing millions of dollars at women's hymens.

I would read the Harlequin Romance version

  • [-]
  • sexrockandroll
  • 17 Points
  • 13:25:30, 8 April

I feel like the stuff from the article is just advertisement, her trying to gain more money. A somewhat falsified doctor's report, some hint at it being romantic for her.

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 20 Points
  • 13:27:50, 8 April

It's definitely PR. "Well, it's mostly money, but you could be the one to tear down my assumptions and make me fall in love! Bid now to see!"

She seems like a very sharp woman. I'm a bit annoyed that she's adding fuel to the virgin-worshiping bonfire, but if you can't beat 'em, join 'em... I guess.

  • [-]
  • adga77
  • 1 Points
  • 19:24:47, 8 April

>She can do what she wants. I think the men bidding on her are so incredibly, unbelievably, laughably pathetic that it makes me question the entirety of humanity. But good on her for making a little money off a horde of sad sac.

Probably going to be downvoted to eternity, but why is it okay for her to do whatever she wants but not the men?

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 1 Points
  • 19:28:32, 8 April

I'm not saying either is okay. But it's undeniably more pathetic to spend millions having sex than it is to make millions having sex.

But while we're on the subject of prostitution, I think people have a right to do whatever they want with their own bodies (including selling/renting them) but when you get to buying sex, you have no guarantee that the person you're soliciting it from has/can give meaningful consent.

  • [-]
  • adga77
  • 1 Points
  • 19:33:03, 8 April

Undeniably more pathetic? I think it works both ways: she's selling her virginity, others are willing to pay for it. Why aren't they on the same level?

Is consent being questioned in this case? She's the one who's advertising herself.

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 1 Points
  • 19:49:05, 8 April

Consent is not being questioned in this case - I thought I'd make a broad statement about why I don't mind prostitution but I look down severely upon johns.

She's selling her virginity - something that means nothing to her - and making a profit of millions of dollars while pointing out the absurdity of human sexuality. Men are slavering to stick their dicks in something no one has stuck their dick in before, and shelling out enough to buy a mansion or secure a comfortable life for a good few decades. Of course it's more pathetic to pay a lot for nothing than to earn a lot for nothing.

It'd be like if I was offering a jar of air that contained the first breath of an infant, and people bid on it and I made a fortune. I'd be a marketing genius - they'd be morons.

  • [-]
  • throw1235
  • 1 Points
  • 20:15:37, 8 April

So immoral behavior is justified if it turns a profit. Got it.

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 1 Points
  • 20:37:48, 8 April

How is sex immoral? I'm not mentioning morals at all. I think selling sex is none of my business, purchasing sex is commonly unethical, and in this particular context - buying virginity as a commodity for millions of dollars is pathetic. Morals have no business here.

  • [-]
  • throw1235
  • 1 Points
  • 20:52:22, 8 April

> I think selling sex is none of my business

Then why the hell is buying virginity any of your business? Virginity is literally having sex for the first time! Putting a price tag on it is just as pathetic as buying it.

But according to you it's not....if they make enough money from it. That's where the morals come in.

  • [-]
  • Meowkit
  • 1 Points
  • 20:38:02, 8 April

Why is selling your virginity immoral?

  • [-]
  • adga77
  • 1 Points
  • 20:44:46, 8 April

It could be that she's pointing out the idiocy behind putting a value on virginity, but at the same time she's also feeding into the phenomenon. Either way, I find it odd and unfair to say it doesn't matter what one party does but to call the other party "pathetic" when they're both active participants. Furthermore, why does it even matter how people spend their money if it doesn't affect you in any way.

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 1 Points
  • 20:46:05, 8 April

It doesn't matter to me. I just find them generally repulsive and was asked for my opinion, so I gave it.

  • [-]
  • glassisnotglass
  • 5 Points
  • 16:58:46, 8 April

She's a medical student and aware that not all virgins can pass a hymen test, she's just confirmed that she can.

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 7 Points
  • 16:59:39, 8 April

Or she's a really good marketer and knows that no one would be able to confirm that she wasn't a virgin.

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 2 Points
  • 17:48:01, 8 April

I thought so, as well, but on her website, she explains more about that. Apparently, she is also willing to take a polygraph test and a few other things. A polygraph can also be "tricked", but a combination of several tests might be enough to satisfy most people, I guess.

  • [-]
  • ms_elroy
  • 3 Points
  • 16:54:55, 8 April

the whole thing is so nasty.

  • [-]
  • LizzieDane
  • 3 Points
  • 14:22:02, 8 April

Ahahaha, my favourite Disney movie just got ruined. Ruined!

  • [-]
  • LizzieDane
  • 1 Points
  • 13:14:19, 8 April

It is, actually. Just not pimping, solicitation, kerb crawling, profiting off someone else's prostitution - the act itself is legal, but many related things are not.

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 2 Points
  • 13:15:03, 8 April

Interesting. But wouldn't the men bidding be soliciting? I'm sure there's a loophole, though.

  • [-]
  • DrossSA
  • 2 Points
  • 16:16:58, 8 April

I remember reading about one of the women a few years ago, the plan was for them to do it in an airplane over international waters or something like that.

  • [-]
  • LizzieDane
  • 1 Points
  • 13:16:29, 8 April

It depends how you do it. So no standing on street corners, but websites to advertise are fine. No riding around trying to pick up women, but calling an agency is fine. It's the distinction between public and not, I think.

Edit: And in the UK, solicitation is something only prostitutes are guilty of. Streetwalking, basically. Kerb crawling is its own offence.

  • [-]
  • canthrower
  • -5 Points
  • 14:10:35, 8 April

> But good on her for making a little money off a horde of sad sacks.

Is this the attitude you take to all conmen?

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 26 Points
  • 14:11:59, 8 April

How is she conning anyone? She told them what she had to sell, they're buying it.

  • [-]
  • canthrower
  • -1 Points
  • 14:23:33, 8 April

I meant the general "good on you for making money off sad sacks" attitude. Is it ok to take people's money if they're stupid enough to give it away?

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 21 Points
  • 14:29:53, 8 April

Not if you're being dishonest. Being gullible or naive or too trusting isn't the same as being willfully stupid.

  • [-]
  • canthrower
  • -8 Points
  • 14:49:58, 8 April

How do you know the men bidding aren't just naive about the real value of virginity?

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 28 Points
  • 14:51:49, 8 April

Because there's no "real" value to virginity. It is what you make it. If a guy wants to spend $1,000 on a Colgate toothbrush, that's his business, provided no one told him it would cure his ED.

  • [-]
  • canthrower
  • -11 Points
  • 15:01:00, 8 April

But how do you know the clients are aware of that?

  • [-]
  • Little_Lion
  • 23 Points
  • 15:03:03, 8 April

Presumably she isn't advertising that her virginity will give them telekinetic abilities? I mean, did you read the article? She flat-out says she's going to go on a date with and sleep with the man who bids the most, and that she's doing it for money. There is no con. A con involves willful deception, of which there is none in this transaction.

  • [-]
  • canthrower
  • -12 Points
  • 15:10:32, 8 April

Nor is she denying it, or any other possible false ideas that clients may have. Willful exploitation of others ignorance is very morally questionable.

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 1 Points
  • 17:53:27, 8 April

In this case, they are the ones giving virginity any monetary value. They're willingly offering their money at a price that they see fit and outbidding each other.

She's putting it out there on the bidding table. So she obviously thinks it CAN have monetary value for other people and she plans on taking advantage of that. So she's part of the problem, yes. But she will have no shortage of buyers.

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 3 Points
  • 17:51:31, 8 April

You're riding a VERY slippery logical slope, there. I see people spend exorbitant amounts of money on stupid shit (in my opinion) all the time. People pay bank for a stupid and ugly logo printed on the pocket of their sweatpants that they wear in public. People pay a lot of money to destroy their hair and make it look like plastic. People pay a lot of money for rims on their car. People pay a lot of money for perfumes and colognes "designed by celebrities" and they smell horrible. People pay a lot of money for "organic" produce. The list goes on and on.

It's their money, though. Not yours. They can spend it as stupidly as they want to and in a situation like this, where they know precisely what they're getting for their money... it's all their choice and their fault.

  • [-]
  • scooch_mgooch
  • -8 Points
  • 15:11:39, 8 April

The "con" is that she's portraying herself as gorgeous 27 year old medical student virgin, yet has not provided a shot of her face or anything that hints at her true identity. She's inflating the "worth" of her virginity.

Edit: Come on, you ladies are smart....none of you think there's something fishy about photos like this? Even I can do better photoshopping than that!

  • [-]
  • throw1235
  • 1 Points
  • 19:11:37, 8 April

The scam is that some poor sap expects to have sex with the heavily photoshopped woman they see in the photos.

  • [-]
  • ladyintheatre
  • -2 Points
  • 13:14:24, 8 April

This.

  • [-]
  • nevertruly
  • 31 Points
  • 13:36:58, 8 April

I think that it is her choice and I don't really care. Personally, I find the commoditization of sex and the glorification of virginity as deeply problematic, but that doesn't change that she can make her own decisions about what is right for her.

  • [-]
  • shewhogoesthere
  • 17 Points
  • 14:11:58, 8 April

Yes. Especially since its only the virginity of women treated like this. Its such a double standard that disgusts me.

  • [-]
  • iconocast
  • 15 Points
  • 13:23:23, 8 April

Hopefully she's being smart enough to legally skirt around prostitution laws. All those med-school bills are going to seriously cut into her profit, not to mention any legal bills that might come about.

I'm more curious about her being not especially sentimental or moralistic about sex, and somehow getting to 27 as a virgin. I'm impressed.

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 13 Points
  • 15:23:04, 8 April

I know women like her, who were virgins until their late 20s and ended up marrying their first partner, or the second partner. It happens when you have women who are extremely busy, always in school and studying, participating in a lot of different hobbies, in a group of like-minded (mostly female) friends, etc. They are, based on what I've seen, fairly attractive, fit, multi-talented, accomplished, family and friends-oriented, hard-working and very smart. Generally, the women I know like this impress me very much. They didn't place a monetary value on their virginity, however, which is where they differ from this woman.

  • [-]
  • iconocast
  • 3 Points
  • 16:42:01, 8 April

I don't know anything about her beyond the fact that she's in med school, attractive, and selling access to her body/virginity, and I also don't know any women who are her age (or older) who match her circumstances/views. I guess that's why she's so interesting.

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 3 Points
  • 17:04:10, 8 April

There are a bunch of them in upper/upper middle class, White families. Especially in families where their parents or grandparents were the ones who started earning more money. They are taught to work their asses off and delay gratification. I grew up with some of these girls and I now teach ballet to a younger group of them. It's pretty common behavior within that small group of people. My family has a similar mentality, only we're not wealthy.

  • [-]
  • Ebu-Gogo
  • 8 Points
  • 14:29:18, 8 April

> I'm more curious about her being not especially sentimental or moralistic about sex, and somehow getting to 27 as a virgin. I'm impressed.

Well, maybe that's why? If you have no strong feelings towards it, there's always a chance of it simply not happening due to a collision of circumstances.

  • [-]
  • iconocast
  • 6 Points
  • 15:00:46, 8 April

That's the thing, not many women get to 27 without meeting the circumstances that result in sex, and usually people abstain for moral reasons. I'd love to hear her talk about sex, sexuality, and the role it plays in her life.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 7 Points
  • 16:47:12, 8 April

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • iconocast
  • 3 Points
  • 16:56:26, 8 April

See, that's interesting! People tend to have such a strong desire to pairbond (especially with their hormones pumping) that they hop into even questionable relationships to try things out.

It's fascinating to see people who, without the force of moral obligation, stay out of the fray. I've always lived in larger metro areas that gave people access to large and varied populations, so I'm interested in the idea that someone would reach 25 and have both a small enough population to not find anyone mutually compelling, as well as the self knowledge/control to rationally assess their prospects in such as way that keeps them from dating.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 4 Points
  • 17:05:26, 8 April

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • iconocast
  • 3 Points
  • 17:09:49, 8 April

Thanks!

  • [-]
  • Ebu-Gogo
  • 3 Points
  • 17:25:24, 8 April

It's not as much of a conscious thing as you seem to imply (correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm only 22, but still a virgin. It would be 'late' to some people though I don't really view it that way. There's just a lot that can be going on in life, plus the idea of priorities and having a certain personality that isn't the most approachable can very easily result into me still being a virgin at 27.

For some people it's just really as simple as never having put any effort into it, which I'll readily admit I haven't. Not every woman gets approached, despite what some people claim.

My phrasing here seems a bit offensive, but don't read it that way, I just really suck at coming across as conversational sometimes.

  • [-]
  • iconocast
  • 2 Points
  • 17:37:57, 8 April

All of that is terribly interesting. I have a sister who is 25 and has only recently gone on her first date, and I know that she's held back by cripplingly low self esteem, but it's far more interesting to see cases of women who are simply not interested in romantic entanglement.

  • [-]
  • Ebu-Gogo
  • 1 Points
  • 18:08:15, 8 April

I am interested, but I'm also working on building up a good ground to stand on and I have progressed pretty far at this point. I just know I'm not in the state of mind yet where I can 'share' my life with someone else so intimately.

I mean, I'm interested in sex as a seperate thing, but it's not something that comes without 'bagage' most of the time.

  • [-]
  • WoahBroJustChill
  • 1 Points
  • 18:28:41, 8 April

Have you ever gotten to pick someones brain about this? Did you figure out why it was interesting?

  • [-]
  • iconocast
  • 1 Points
  • 18:46:12, 8 April

The only women I know over 25 who are virgins are either very religious or my sister, who is too afraid to go on a date.

  • [-]
  • WoahBroJustChill
  • 1 Points
  • 19:19:03, 8 April

Well if you ever find out more, that's something I'd be interested in reading about.

  • [-]
  • Mundology
  • 1 Points
  • 19:48:07, 8 April

It's very common in Mauritius. Women and men from the South Asian/Middle Eastern origins generally wait until marriage. Combined with the fact that people are now delaying their (first) marriage and you have a bunch of late twenties and early thirties virgins. Just adding a little bit of info about other cultures so as to broaden everyone's perspective :)

  • [-]
  • sexrockandroll
  • 9 Points
  • 13:09:48, 8 April

Well, she can do what she wants. I think it's really silly that someone would pay that much. Virginity is over valued.

  • [-]
  • ass_kicker32
  • 9 Points
  • 17:23:06, 8 April

I personally think its silly to pay anything for it. Why do people think sex with virgins is great? Id rather have sex with someone who knows what theyre doing.

  • [-]
  • xyz92
  • 1 Points
  • 18:38:21, 8 April

I think for the novelty of "hah, I was here first!"

  • [-]
  • elombardi
  • 1 Points
  • 20:09:16, 8 April

See, I know at least for me, it was a lot of mess and a lot of unintentional pushing away (it wasn't that I didn't want to, I was just trying to squirm away from the pain).

I still don't exactly see the appeal, but, eh. It confuses me that so many do, but a lot of people also think red is a nicer colour than green, c'est la vie.

  • [-]
  • awaythrowawaying
  • 1 Points
  • 19:42:12, 8 April

Perhaps some people have different preferences and priorities than you? A strange concept, I know.

  • [-]
  • ass_kicker32
  • 1 Points
  • 20:00:43, 8 April

I always thought I just had different preferences than others, but you could be right.

  • [-]
  • Tripacola
  • 7 Points
  • 16:48:01, 8 April

I wonder if a guy could sell his virginity like this too. I'm a virgin and I wouldn't mind selling something meaningless either.

  • [-]
  • Timura
  • 1 Points
  • 18:08:49, 8 April

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/catarina-migliorini-sells-virginity-780kn2010260.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/24/alex-stepanov-virgins-wantedn4159688.html This dude did it. :D

  • [-]
  • awaythrowawaying
  • 1 Points
  • 19:43:08, 8 April

I think there was an experiment on this once? A guy and girl both sold their virginities. The guy went for about $2500, the girl went for something in the $100,000s

  • [-]
  • kidkvlt
  • 15 Points
  • 15:37:39, 8 April

Get dat paper girl

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 6 Points
  • 15:05:08, 8 April

I always have mixed thoughts on these situations.

The idea of virginity having a monetary value is certainly an antiquated concept. It's been around for awhile. At first, to someone who values people's bodies and sexuality, it can sound a bit tempting to value virginity, itself. But when you dig further, you see that this idea leads to a lot of ugly side effects that hurt both women and men.

But this old idea is obviously still alive and well in many societies around the world to various degrees. If it wasn't, then she wouldn't be receiving these sorts of offers. Clearly, there are many men in the world who are willing to offer a lot of money in exchange for a woman's virginity. Especially a woman like her who has traits that many cultures value in women. She's young, smart and well-spoken, educated, has a future, she has a body that many men prefer, her hair looks nice, I'm willing to bet her face is rather nice, also. She's clearly appealing and I can see why wealthier men are making her offers. She won't have all of these advantages simultaneously forever, so of course she's going to want to take advantage of this now. She's no fool and she knows her audience. She's even offering this deal within the context of a long date and that will appeal to wealthier men, as well. This isn't a "hey, let's meet at a motel 6 and fuck for an hour" type of deal. She knows wealthy guys aren't into that cheap stuff. She's playing into the high class escort motif. Just look at her "about me" on her site and her photos in what looks like very expensive lingerie. This girl knows exactly what she's doing and she's doing it well. Traditional, wealthy men will love her. She'll pay off her medical school education without a hitch. She's also smart for not revealing her face for many reasons... the main one being she will easily slip back into anonymity and continue her life as normal. She knows other men in her SEC who are marriage material won't want a woman who sold herself. $500 says she'll pretend it never happened in the future.

With the exception of prostitution, which is a different concept of sex (some people see it as physical labor, which makes sense), I personally believe that any time you offer your body to another person, it is "priceless" in the sense that most of what you will hopefully receive in return has an abstract, non-physical value, far beyond "good sex" for that period of time. And you're also not doing it necessarily to receive anything, you're doing it because you both want to express your affection and feel good. Outside of prostitution, it's one of hundreds, thousands of tiny "transactions" that make up a relationship that's beneficial for more than one person. A relationship isn't an itemized list, like a grocery receipt. And I believe a person's body has a "priceless" value every time they offer it, not only the first time.

But, in her case, it is an itemized list, what she is doing IS prostitution. And that's fine. I just hope she doesn't let her emotions get involved at the final hour, that will fuck with her head.

I think she's risking her own well-being. She says she doesn't personally place this sort of value on her own virginity, but if so, then why is she even playing along? If she doesn't buy into the idea, then why is she playing into it? She sounds like a smart young woman, I'm sure she is aware that these ideas are ultimately damaging to people. I also understand that this kind of money is quite the deal. Apparently, it's worth it to her. Part of me wants to blame her, but I'm not sure I can really do that. She is being a typical, selfish human... using a concept to her advantage that does hurt other people, and possibly, herself, later on... but does she care? Not enough to not do this. We can talk shit about her, but she's just a flawed human.

And the men who place such a high dollar value on her virginity are also foolish, but in their minds, this is worth it. So who is to tell them what they can and can't do with their own money? If the man isn't married or taken, already, then is he any less unethical than she is?

I also wouldn't be surprised if, at her age, she's going to try and enter a serious relationship with a high bidder of her choice. After reading her website, I am thinking this might be a way for her to find a potential husband.

Someone should set her up with this guy. I bet they could come to an agreement, hahaha. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/surgeon-dating-email-outrageous-requirements-womann3721225.html

  • [-]
  • InfinitelyThirsting
  • 25 Points
  • 13:14:54, 8 April

Good on her for exploiting idiots who think virginity matters, honestly. She's financially motivated, it isn't emotionally important to her. Virginity is probably one of the most meaningless concepts in the world, in my opinion.

Sure, it's prostitution. I don't disagree with prostitution, though.

  • [-]
  • tbhcupid
  • 24 Points
  • 15:00:58, 8 April

> Good on her for exploiting idiots who think virginity matters, honestly.

Ah yes. Good on her for perpetuating the idea that virginity matters (what this comes down to) and encouraging such idiots. Hurray. /s

I'm not fond of judging people morally for their private transactions. That said, I really don't see how anyone can consider this woman to be above her potential customers.

Hers is just the other side of the coin. Both sides are equivalent, conforming to the traditional notion of men as money providers and women as sex providers, rooted in traditional sexism. That's the only difference here.

  • [-]
  • InfinitelyThirsting
  • 11 Points
  • 15:19:45, 8 April

She's above her potential customers because she's very open about it being meaningless. She's not perpetuating the idea that virginity matters (if she were, she'd be preserving her virginity). In fact, she's making it very obvious how ridiculous the whole idea is. There are idiots willing to spend millions of dollars for something that doesn't matter. I wouldn't do it myself, but if you're going to part a fool from their money, might as well pick the sexist fools.

  • [-]
  • tbhcupid
  • 7 Points
  • 17:48:47, 8 April

> She's not perpetuating the idea that virginity matters (if she were, she'd be preserving her virginity).

If it didn't matter, she would sell sex instead of advertising her virginity.

It's irrelevant whether she values her virginity or not, since her action perpetuates the notion that it has value.

How else would you categorize demanding a high sum for a commodity? The notion being perpetuated when you deliberately try to sell a commodity for a high price is that it is of high value.

It could be diamonds, sex, designer clothing, pubic hair.. anything you may try to get a lot of money for, no matter how absurd.

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 1 Points
  • 18:29:51, 8 April

She's putting her virginity up for a bid. If that's not participating in the idea of "there is value in my virginity" then I don't know what is.

There is a difference between believing in something and participating versus thinking it's bogus but playing along for your own benefit. She is obviously doing the latter.

But the end result is the same. What this bid will help accomplish is providing more evidence that in modern society, virginity still has a (high, if you have desirable traits) value.

  • [-]
  • fromdatab
  • 16 Points
  • 16:35:11, 8 April

> She's not perpetuating the idea that virginity matters (if she were, she'd be preserving her virginity).

I can also argue the opposite. She is perpetuating the idea that virginity matters. Otherwise she would have lost her virginity for free without giving it a thought.

There is something tangible in the fact that her virginity could essentially pay for the cost of her medical school. We can't just say something "doesn't matter" when there's an overwhelming amount of social (and in this case, economic) evidence indicating the opposite. Her virginity is literally being exchanged for money.

Virginity shouldn't matter, but in the current state of our society, it does. The woman is just as responsible for perpetuating this idea as the bidders are.

  • [-]
  • wanderingimpromptu
  • 1 Points
  • 19:09:36, 8 April

> She is perpetuating the idea that virginity matters. Otherwise she would have lost her virginity for free without giving it a thought.

I think we have a different definition of perpetuating.

For example if there were people out there who thought that bare wrists were terribly scandalous and would pay me millions of dollars to touch my wrist... I would selling be those wrist touches like candy.

If someone is willing to pay me millions of dollars for something I think of as trivial, I'm going to let them do it. That's not "perpetuating" anything -- that's just, to me, common sense. It's simply an acknowledgement "other people care about this thing that I don't care about." I'm personally not going to forgo millions of dollars just because I think other people's preferences are silly and I wouldn't expect her to do that either.

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 1 Points
  • 19:29:13, 8 April

Totally agreed and that's the main reason I can't really blame her. However, on a larger scale, this event happening does encourage more people to believe in this nonsense and it piques their curiosity. There are two sides to this, and like most complex situations, they're both right.

  • [-]
  • poesie
  • 4 Points
  • 15:33:27, 8 April

I kind of agree with you. I think it's abhorrent from all directions.

  • [-]
  • canthrower
  • -4 Points
  • 14:35:29, 8 April

"Good on her for exploiting idiots" - is this your general attitude to people? Have you ever been the less informed party in a negotiation?

  • [-]
  • InfinitelyThirsting
  • 18 Points
  • 15:17:32, 8 April

They aren't less-informed, though. They're sexist believers in pointless dogma.

  • [-]
  • Hebdabaws
  • 2 Points
  • 16:16:26, 8 April

Why are they sexist?

  • [-]
  • TheRosesAndGuns
  • 1 Points
  • 18:26:14, 8 April

It's her body and her choice. However, I think it's kind of highlighting the idea that sex and virginity is a commodity and can be bought, which is a ridiculous idea.

  • [-]
  • LizzieDane
  • 14 Points
  • 13:14:58, 8 April

Prostitution doesn't bother me, but the idea of virginity as commodity does. The bidders are sick.

  • [-]
  • dercsalvo
  • 1 Points
  • 18:46:34, 8 April

What about virginity as a commodity bothers you so much?

  • [-]
  • LegitIceCreamVan
  • 7 Points
  • 17:45:20, 8 April

ITT:

Its ok for the woman to sell her virginity if she wants to because she simply can.

It's not ok for men to simply buy her virginity because its seen as pathetic.

  • [-]
  • jack_hugeman
  • 1 Points
  • 18:43:58, 8 April

Meh I kind of think both parties are pathetic

  • [-]
  • smallworm
  • 1 Points
  • 18:25:09, 8 April

you're saying this like they are the same kinda thing? everyone's just laughing at the men pretty much

  • [-]
  • scooch_mgooch
  • 1 Points
  • 18:44:11, 8 April

Not only that, but people are calling her clever for selling her virginity.

If I was in school to become a doctor, prostitution would't be very high up on my list of smart career choices.

  • [-]
  • lazybarista
  • 1 Points
  • 20:49:27, 8 April

It makes perfect sense to congratulate someone for making a shit ton of money for something simple, and to chastise someone who is willing to pay so much money for something simple.

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 1 Points
  • 18:08:36, 8 April

Nope. Quite a few of us have not been saying that. Maybe you should read the thread.

  • [-]
  • dercsalvo
  • 1 Points
  • 20:01:27, 8 April

Yeah, there are also quite a few people who are ok with what she's doing and fuming about the men who are interested. /u/Little_Lion made that very apparent, as well as many people in this thread.

  • [-]
  • pancaketoaster
  • 1 Points
  • 20:04:40, 8 April

Sure, but their existence in this thread doesn't mean I am wrong or the original reply is right. There have been many different views expressed in here.

  • [-]
  • reagan92
  • 4 Points
  • 13:16:49, 8 April

I kind of hate that someone's virginity is worth that much money, but otherwise good for her.

It's her body and I think it says something about society this is even a story in which to have an opinion on.

  • [-]
  • smallworm
  • 1 Points
  • 18:21:40, 8 April

I hope she's not a virgin so much. That would be funny. No one would be able to tell anyway

  • [-]
  • rhinecat
  • 3 Points
  • 15:29:22, 8 April

I don't like what she's doing, for reasons related to the concept of virginity better explained in this thread, but I will always support her right to do it.

  • [-]
  • gnomestress
  • 3 Points
  • 15:01:06, 8 April

I'm pro sex work. If she is smart enough to skirt prostitution laws and has a commodity to sell, good for her. I don't think she or the men willing to purchase her virginity should be judged. If it's safe and there's consent, have at it.

That said, a non religious, attractive, sex positive woman still a virgin at 27? I have trouble believing that.

  • [-]
  • wineandcatlady
  • 9 Points
  • 13:09:14, 8 April

It's dumb, it's prostitution, she has no respect for herself. I hope that whoever purchases her virginity doesn't beat the crap out of her, because selling yourself is dangerous.

That said, it's her life and it doesn't affect me, but I do feel sorry for her.

Edit: No idea why I got down voted? Sometimes it's really annoying to get down voted without a reason.

  • [-]
  • nick_caves_moustache
  • 17 Points
  • 13:31:53, 8 April

> she has no respect for herself.

That. You were downvoted because of that.

  • [-]
  • WoahBroJustChill
  • 1 Points
  • 18:32:27, 8 April

So she was downvoted for saying her opinion after being asked for it? Not because she broke a rule or insulted another user?

It sure is great when people contribute to making a sub an echo chamber /s

  • [-]
  • wineandcatlady
  • 14 Points
  • 13:57:15, 8 April

I think prostituting yourself out does mean you have no respect for yourself. That's my opinion though, and we were asked on our opinions.

  • [-]
  • dexterpoopybaby
  • 6 Points
  • 16:03:04, 8 April

Why do they not have respect for themselves?

  • [-]
  • wineandcatlady
  • 12 Points
  • 16:06:24, 8 April

Because they are selling their bodies. That's how I feel. Obviously I'm not a prostitute, and I know that people have their own opinions about prostitution and I know what mine are.

I will never think prostitution is okay because I do think it's sad and disrespectful to sell yourself for sex.

  • [-]
  • dexterpoopybaby
  • 6 Points
  • 16:09:04, 8 April

They're selling a service. That isn't exactly a reason, but I suspect there's not much else to this than "It's sad because it's sad."

  • [-]
  • wineandcatlady
  • 4 Points
  • 16:09:53, 8 April

Ok, well I think the service they are selling means they have no respect for themselves.

  • [-]
  • wanderingimpromptu
  • 1 Points
  • 19:16:03, 8 April

> Because they are selling their bodies.

Interesting. I think it's closer to a loan. If I work construction I'm loaning the use of my body for the purpose of moving heavy things. If I work software I'm loaning the use of my body (my fingers and my brain) for the purpose of making computer instructions. If I'm a sex worker I'm loaning the use of my body for the purpose of another person's sexual pleasure. In any case, you're receiving money in return for someone else dictating what you do with your body for some period of time, no?

  • [-]
  • LizzieDane
  • 15 Points
  • 13:35:37, 8 April

I'm guessing people aren't being mindful of reddiquette, and downvoting to indicate disagreement.

Or they don't think your comment adds to discussion/is useful.

Or it could be that AW users are generally quite pro sex work and think calling a sex worker stupid, self loathing, to be pitied, and in grave danger, is nasty/ignorant.

  • [-]
  • wineandcatlady
  • 6 Points
  • 13:59:45, 8 April

But it's my opinion so I don't think it makes me nasty or ignorant. We all have our own beliefs and opinions and just because mine is different doesn't mean I'm ignorant. I will always think selling yourself is sad.

  • [-]
  • LizzieDane
  • 12 Points
  • 14:05:19, 8 April

Opinions can be cruel, and they can be based on a lack of knowledge. And "I think that XYZ is a fact," doesn't really count as an opinion. "I like frozen yoghurt," is an opinion. "People who do X are in fact Y," doesn't become an opinion with "I believe," tacked on it.

I hope you learn more about sex work, the risks, sex workers, and how they feel about both themselves and their profession. I think it might be very illuminating.

Here's a taster: sex workers do not frame it in terms of "selling themselves", or even renting themselves. It's skilled labour for money. Their self, their body, at no point belongs to anyone else.

  • [-]
  • writesaboutstats
  • 4 Points
  • 14:20:57, 8 April

> Here's a taster: sex workers do not frame it in terms of "selling themselves", or even renting themselves. It's skilled labour for money. Their self, their body, at no point belongs to anyone else.

The thing that annoys me is that some people think it's okay to sell, but not to buy. I think buying virginity is a waste of money but whatever floats your boat.

  • [-]
  • LizzieDane
  • 4 Points
  • 14:30:08, 8 April

Welp, like I just said, that would be hiring, not buying. However, the two are a little uneven, to me.

Paying a premium of millions to sleep with a virgin reinforces the very harmful idea that virginity exists, is important, is a premium, and to be held on to til a woman I dunno, has a small stroke from the effort.

The way she's advertising it buys into that, so she's guilty of promoting that idea too, along with the idea that there's any kind of medical test for virginity.

Buuuut at the end of the day female-virginity-as-prize isn't something women invented, enforce, and use as a tool of oppression, so I do give Raine the smallest of passes for monetizing on something that would be happening whether she made it a financial transaction or not.

  • [-]
  • writesaboutstats
  • 3 Points
  • 16:24:35, 8 April

Isn't that just semantics? Part of the literal word definition of 'buying' is 'to hire or obtain the services of.'

I'm not sure what the harm is in virginity for those who voluntarily choose to be virgins or for those who value its importance. I have friends for example who want to wait till after they are married and that's their choice that doesn't affect me.

I definitely agree that virginity-as-a-prize is ridiculous, and using it to oppress or justify murder is abhorrent.

  • [-]
  • awaythrowawaying
  • 1 Points
  • 19:46:55, 8 April

>I hope you learn more about sex work, the risks, sex workers, and how they feel about both themselves and their profession. I think it might be very illuminating.

I've talked to something like eight sex workers and all of them regretted doing what they did. Most of them added that the sex work actually changed their psychological outlook on sex and made it harder to enjoy with a loving partner.

I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm wrong. But it is extremely arrogant to assume that all sex workers think the same way about their business (which is what your sentence implied).

  • [-]
  • MistressFey
  • 1 Points
  • 20:46:11, 8 April

> calling a sex worker stupid, self loathing, to be pitied, and in grave danger, is nasty/ignorant.

Even if this is what the research shows? I mean, other than the stupid thing, research has found that sex work really messes people up.

This woman did an intensive, multicultural study of over 900 prostitutes and 500 johns.

This is her most disturbing finding: "two-thirds [of prostitutes] had PTSD at the same level as the most emotionally traumatized groups ever studied by psychologists."

So, yeah, I'd think saying that most sex workers are to be pitied and in grave danger has a lot of factual backing.

  • [-]
  • scooch_mgooch
  • 13 Points
  • 13:49:42, 8 April

criticizing the bidders = upvotes

criticizing the woman = downvotes

  • [-]
  • riendedoux
  • 4 Points
  • 17:46:50, 8 April

Not to treat this like a CMV post or anything like that, but I just wrote a paper about discourses on prostitution so I feel like you might like to hear an alternate interpretation of why you may feel like sex workers "sell themselves" instead of "sell sexual services" and therefore believe that they have no respect for themselves.

Pretty much where this notion comes from is that traditionally, women were valued based on the demands that she could make on whomever she grants sexual access to her body to. In other words, women used to be valued purely based on how much a man would have to do in order to have sex with her. Her other personality traits, attributes, or characteristics really didn't matter beyond that fundamental point.

So when you say that she is selling herself or that "she has no respect for herself", what you are doing is reinforcing the notion that women are only valuable to satisfy the sexual needs of men. That is the reason why I believe some people are concerned about your wording there. At the very least, I think you should just call it what it is, which is an exchange of money for sexual services.

  • [-]
  • ms_elroy
  • 2 Points
  • 16:58:34, 8 April

It really really bothers me on many levels. It's a reflection of the reality of the world we live in and it makes me sad :(

Sad that a woman is seen as an object, sad this is seen a good option financially for her to better her situation, sad that there are willing buyers. There's so much that's wrong with this :(

  • [-]
  • MissHampton
  • 2 Points
  • 15:05:53, 8 April

If that's what she wants then more power to her. As long as she is smart about it in legal and health aspects then I don't see an issue. I skimmed the article and it says she also plans on donating a sizable percentage to charity so that's pretty great.

  • [-]
  • DrNotEscalator
  • 3 Points
  • 16:35:21, 8 April

Honestly I think it's gross. I don't think sex should be commodotized and so selling sex bothers me. That being said the people bidding on her bother me just as much as her selling herself.

  • [-]
  • emy0009
  • 1 Points
  • 16:51:36, 8 April

It's prostitution. While I don't think that prostitution should be illegal I don't necessarily agree with it. I think it's gross and sad. She's going to get a lot of money but respect for your own body is something that is priceless.

  • [-]
  • manderp
  • 1 Points
  • 18:09:40, 8 April

I honestly don't care, cause it's her body. But I'd hope she'd be smart enough to have rules about guys with STDs. If her highest bidder had a nasty, incurable STD... that'd be awful.

  • [-]
  • elombardi
  • 1 Points
  • 20:01:04, 8 April

Her body, her choice.

I will say I personally find her choice odd, as well as the choice of those men (or ladies, possibly, who knows) trying to purchase it. My main reason for is that I personally see sex as a intimate act (which I know others view differently), and this seems far from intimate. However, I have also had the same reaction to a friend of mine that has slept with people they have not known very well. I wouldn't say it's 'wrong', just not something I would do, but if its something they want, then I am happy they feel comfortable doing what makes them happy.

edit: grammar!

  • [-]
  • antisocialmedic
  • 1 Points
  • 20:12:46, 8 April

That's her call to make. It's none of my business.

  • [-]
  • Redwantsblue80
  • 1 Points
  • 20:22:43, 8 April

It's not hurting anyone. Two consenting adults? Go for it.

  • [-]
  • FromZtoB
  • 1 Points
  • 16:20:23, 8 April

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this makes me sad. If she really needs money, there are other ways to get it.

  • [-]
  • Keaoa
  • 2 Points
  • 16:35:50, 8 April

Eh, as long as they aren't hurting people, I don't much care what others are doing. She just wants attention and the news media is obliging. It's more annoying to me that the media is making such a big deal and giving her what she wants. She can do whatever, I'm just sick of hearing about it.

  • [-]
  • lazybarista
  • 1 Points
  • 17:03:52, 8 April

if these nasty idiots are going to pay so much for something so stupid, why not take the money.

  • [-]
  • cyanocobalamin
  • 1 Points
  • 17:59:05, 8 April

FWIW, she isn't doing it for the money:

>“Money is my motivation, but by no means do I need the money. I’m pretty safe and secure financially,” she told EliteDaily.com.

>Adventure, eroticism, scandal and challenging norms about virginity also rank on her list.

>“Many women are raised believing that they should hold on to their virginity and that it’s something that’s important for their marriage, for their relationship. It is a measure of how good they are as a person," she told the website. "I never believed that and I never even intentionally tried to stay a virgin. It just really happened this way.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/21/elizabeth-raine-virginity-auctionn5002502.html

  • [-]
  • jack_hugeman
  • 1 Points
  • 18:36:26, 8 April

The whole obsession with virginity grosses me out. But if she wants to make money off that then more power to her i guess.

  • [-]
  • sehrah
  • 1 Points
  • 20:04:47, 8 April

Eh. More power to her. I'dve sold mine for millions if I could, NGL.

I think it's really weird for someone to buy someone's virginity for so much. Like, it just seems like a strange waste of money.