What fixed our DB (former LL wife) (self.DeadBedrooms)

DeadBedrooms

28 ups - 0 downs = 28 votes

We had a pretty DB. In the beginning, sex nonstop for 9 months, then I got pregnant and life and financial and extended family stress began. That was in Spring-Summer of 2006. Since then, we had probably had sex between 20-25 times. Yes, in 8 years. It was bad, but I justified it in my mind. We're busy. We're stressed out. The kids will hear. I'm tired. I need to do xyz for the business (we own our own business). We went to counseling. I went to counseling. We alternated yelling at each other that we were "done!". The rest of the marriage and the business and the coparenting were fine, but the giant elephant in the room that caused all the resentment and simmering anger was that we had sex two or three times a year and slept in separate rooms.

One day last month (yes, this is literally how it happened) I woke up in the middle of the night in my bed and realized that I had completely emasculated my husband in my mind and I craved to be dominated. Physically, in the relationship, in business matters, in household matters, in bed. I had allowed my anxiety to cause me to micromanage and attempt to control every iota of my life, including my husband, which made me view him as weak and submissive, which is not attractive.

Telling him this was the most humbling and awkward and frightening thing I had ever told him. I cried and apologized. I told him that I was telling him right here right now that there is no such word as "No" in our sex life from me. He became visibly excited by this, but went to work.

I spent the day reading about WHY I might have ended up coming to this realization and concluded that when I stripped the power away from my husband, I was "topping from the bottom", to use a BDSM term. See, every relationship needs to have a defined top and a defined bottom, or there will be a power struggle that infects and destroys the relationship. I had chosen and married a man that was an alpha, so I needed to let him BE the alpha. Yes, this was a conscious choice that I had to make. It has been a struggle for me. Yes, I have tried to top from the bottom a few times over the last month and those moments have been the only disharmony we have had (and YES, in each of those instances I was dead wrong and just trying to control him selfishly).

So our new house rules are:

  1. He is alpha. He has final say in all things. He will ask my opinion and we will discuss it, but his Yes or No can overrule mine.

  2. There is no such word as "No" in the bedroom. I do have a safe word. I have not needed it. He gets whatever he wants when he wants it and he has not been shy or lacked any creativity.

  3. I have to remember that when I married him, had kids with him, and started our business with him, I TRUSTED HIM. So if I trust him enough to have him as my business partner, surely I should trust him to know what is actually best for me in the bedroom. He has not hurt me, yet some of the boundaries he has pushed would have had me running and screaming for the hills 5 weeks ago.

Results:

We have sex 2-4 times a day but I would prefer more. Yes, he has routinely joked about the alien that replaced his wife, but he seems to have come to terms with it.

Previously when I couldn't stand to have ANY physical contact with him I can't get off of him now. No kissing in years ---> kissing nonstop. Sitting on separate couches ---> sitting in his lap. Never holding hands ---> being physically intertwined at all times.

So in conclusion, I would suggest to HL partners to sit and consider: how does my LL partner picture me in her head? Does she think of me as a broken, submissive Alpha, because that will turn a woman off and dry her up like the Sahara Desert. She may not realize she's the one causing this submissiveness and emasculation, but if she is viewing you in this way, she will instinctively be led to not want to mate with you. You may be her best friend and co-parent and financial partner, but because she controls you sexually, she's (perhaps even subconsciously!) friend-zoned you. No woman wants to sleep with a timid, hyper-anxious-to-please man she can control by withholding sex.

Everyone go watch Gone With The Wind. See Ashley Wilkes and Charles Hamilton? NO. YUCK. Now watch Rhett Butler. He gets what he wants on his terms when he wants and, and if Scarlett isn't going to give it, he takes it. YES YES YES. Let Rhett Butler be the inspiration to men everywhere.

27 comments submitted at 15:01:32 on Jul 20, 2014 by Lizceleste

  • [-]
  • uzpurnis
  • 31 Points
  • 15:46:43, 20 July

Interesting experience, I can sort of relate with the micromanaging.

Also this is a Redpiller's wet dream and a feminist's nightmare, which is probably the reason why there aren't any comments here yet : )

  • [-]
  • Lopolane
  • 10 Points
  • 16:01:49, 20 July

> Also this is a Redpiller's wet dream and a feminist's nightmare, which is probably the reason why there aren't any comments here yet : )

That's the first thing I thought too. She has a stop word and is actually the person who instigated the regime so she still has enough control.

It's interesting that culturally people can say "no" to sexual intimacy much more freely than, for example, kissing. Imagine if one partner turned away when their partner wanted to give them a quick peck and said "no, not now i'm not in the mood" 99% of the time. Most people would be upset by that, devastated even.

  • [-]
  • uzpurnis
  • 4 Points
  • 17:47:08, 20 July

Maybe it's cos kissing can't get you preggers.

The post really got me thinking that not as many women are as dominant by nature as they think. There's this gap between who we wish we were and who we are and often enough it can't and shouldn't be closed. Also being dominant and micromanaging are sooo not the same.

Total equality in relationships, in my mind, is almost impossible to maintain. So, logically, it's more convenient for the man to dominate more often. But shhhh, don't tell Cosmo. There's this fear of not being liberated enough... But, shit, if it works, who cares?

The guy's been brought up to do this stuff, it's probably in his genes as well. Do feminist theories really have to be applied to every individual relationship to fight for equality, even if it hurts everyone involved?

I also started thinking about TRUST which was mentioned. Women don't seem to trust men nowadays. Why? Maybe because there's been this big explosion when women noticed that men aren't always right. Which turned into MEN ARE NEVER RIGHT somewhere in the collective subconscious. But I think, like all extreme ideas and exaggerarations, it'll come to pass. Someday we'll be able to choose exactly what's right for US in relationships.

As for OP, the crazies will probably pass after a while and hopefully she'll find a way to have a satisfying, balanced relationship : )

  • [-]
  • whaelstrom
  • 2 Points
  • 20:06:14, 20 July

feminist here, just want to say being dominated is not my nightmare, quite the opposite. I think that it would be a mistake to think that the solution to one couple's db is the solution to every couple's db. Maybe the key here is not the solution they came up with, but the fact that they talked about their problems and worked out something that worked for them?

  • [-]
  • MetricLemur
  • 6 Points
  • 16:13:00, 20 July

This was pretty much the exact thing that happened in my marriage. After years of trying to fix the DB I was pretty much checked out and trying to pull the trigger on a divorce. My wife knew I was serious this time so she was putting in a lot of effort and we had begun going to counseling again.

My wife had never let me be the man in the relationship. She managed the finances. She was the final word on any decision. And on every topic my opinion was equal to our five year olds. When mortgage rates were dropping to ridiculous lows I told her we needed to refinance because it would save us tens of thousands of dollars. Of course the idea was ludicrous to her. Until her dad brought it up a year later. She had her ass talking to lenders within a week of him recommending it.

And it wasn't just financial matters either. I know ALOT about cars. I even do most my own repairs. I used to change my oil for fun when I had more time in my life. But she wouldn't take me with her to buy the first car we bought for her. Funny that a year later we had to trade the lemon in on a new one - she paid $5500 for it (we were poor kids 14 years ago) and the best we could get for it a year later was $100...

Anyway, our whole marriage was like that. In counseling she figures out that the reason she never wanted to have sex with me is that she has never respected me as a real man because she had to help me out financially before we got married (I was behind on some bills and she helped me set up a payment plan to get everything paid off.)

So not long after that I told her I wanted a divorce. As emasculated as I sound I am a man's man. I'm a gear head, tool fanatic, camper, fisher, avid mountain biker, 6'6" 240 lbs and sexy as fuck. I can fix or build just about anything. If she didn't view me as a man there was not going to be much more I could change or do to fix that. So I left.

And there have been plenty of women in the last year who think I'm a man.

  • [-]
  • insilks
  • 18 Points
  • 16:21:40, 20 July

well done for finding a solution that worked for you. It's really very nice that you have a partner/husband that you trust so implicitly, and have the kind of relationship that you want.

Everyone doesn't have that. And everyone doesn't want the kind of relationship you describe.

It is both unfair and dangerous to recommend that 'men everywhere' take that tack and that every woman wants this kind of relationship and that is what is 'wrong' with every DB. You have neither the right nor the knowledge to say what will turn off every woman and 'dry her up like the Sahara'. It also bears pointing out that while you take full responsibility for whatever might have been wrong in your relationship, in most relationships, both parties must be open to their share in whatever faults have arisen.

Plus, GWTW was a)fiction; b) romanticized, terrible book; and c) an even more terrible movie.

  • [-]
  • nofaprecommender
  • -4 Points
  • 18:30:34, 20 July

Great encouragement you gave there for a person who turned her life around. Exactly what this sub craves.

  • [-]
  • doublenut
  • 6 Points
  • 18:09:44, 20 July

Thanks for sharing your experience!

What I think redpillers really miss is that a lot of us men aren't attracted to doormats either. This setup isn't going to work for everyone. Someone who's just a toy who does what you say might be fun for a while but is ultimately kind of boring.

Your advice is self-contradictory, unfortunately, since what actually happened is you woke up and for no reason, more or less, finally saw that your situation sucked. What you then did about it was your actions. This--the "LL" partner turns around their attitude for reasons of his or her own--is the common factor in the DB success stories posted on this sub.

I presume you're addressing only those couples where the wife is the sex-seeking partner, which is understandable (if only part of the problems seen on this sub). Even at that, you're giving advice that doesn't match your experience; you're giving advice for what sex-seeking men can do even though it wasn't your husband's actions that turned things around.

The advice to "be more alpha" or "be more dominant" is commonly given, commonly followed and commonly fails. In many instances, by the time you're ready to call it a "dead bedroom" the sex-seeking partner will have tried just about everything, and lecturing that maybe they should try communicating; or try getting fit; or try counseling; or being more dominant is kind of redundant (not to say I don't think people should try those things before giving up).

I actually think it's good advice for both sexes to be assertive, rather than supplicating, about what they expect, set limits, and be prepared to end a relationship that lacks in a fundamental, necessary component. But I can't really think of anything less masculine than adopting a posture because you're worried about what someone else thinks of your masculinity.

I think it's great that you have the relationship that you want, but I do think you're off in the advice you're giving on the basis of your turnaround.

  • [-]
  • Lizceleste
  • 2 Points
  • 19:40:24, 20 July

I of course can only offer any real analysis as it applied in my marriage.

I think you hit the point on the head when you state that I took action. I finally was at a point where I acknowledged that my own behavior, not my husband's, was the giant white elephant in the room that was preventing us from healing. I had been a sexual person before, why was I not now? Who had changed? How had we changed? How did my negative behavior and refusal to meet my husband's needs play a part? I had told myself for years that in order for me to have sex with him, he needed to make me feel emotionally intimate and "safe" in order to feel aroused. But the real problem was in ME. MY anxiety and tendency to micromanage was eating me alive and killing my libido. So if I am a micromanaging control freak because I say it makes me feel safer, yet I am seeing a shrink, then I can assume that my mindset isn't working for me, right? So I came to the conclusion that maintaining control of all aspects of my life at all costs didn't work for me, despite the fact that I was convinced it was the only thing holding me together.

So ergo I come to the conclusion that I must give up control. And for my life, the fastest and most effective way to do that was to start with sex. And the simple mechanics in my relationship meant that I would have to sexually submit to my husband. His subsequent sexual dominance made me feel extremely sexually attracted to him. My LL was caused by the fact that I had emasculated him and no longer found him attractive. His assertiveness changed my sexual response almost immediately.

I am by no means saying that my solution will fix any other dead bedroom. What I am saying is that both participants in a dead bedroom have to think outside the box about WHAT is killing libido. In my case is was self-control wrapped up in an anxiety disorder.

The first step both parties need to take is a genuine assessment about what is going on. What I wanted to share was how surprised I was when assessing how PC gender roles vs the role identification of the two parties differed. For me, there is a huge leap between what I have learned about gender roles and what I instinctively NEEDED. Yes, I did read some redpill material today. Guess what? I was doing all of those negative things. Guess what it was doing? Killing my marriage. Is this the case for every marriage? Of course not. But what should ring true with every marriage is an obligation from both parties to honestly assess what is and isn't working in their marriage and how their behavior is contributing to the lack of sex. And if a solution feels out of the box or initially uncomfortable, both parties still should at least keep an open mind.

  • [-]
  • soursalt
  • 9 Points
  • 15:59:40, 20 July

I'm so happy for you, not only that you've found something that works for you, but that you're both happy.

However, and I'm sure everyone who's read this is expecting this -- I disagree with some of your statements that sound a bit sweeping. The concept that there needs to be a dominant partner and a submissive partner does not apply to many couples. Again, I'm not discounting your success -- I'm happy that, if it's what makes you both happy, allowing your husband to overrule your opinion outside of the bedroom and dominate you/ take from you inside the bedroom works for you! For many couples, they might prefer to be equals, not alpha and beta.

I think this represents a large problem in deadbedroom stories I've read here, and in relationship books I've read; the LL holds the "power" in the sense that, by not wanting sex, they set the bar for what intimacy is had in the relationship. For you, that caused you to feel you had emasculated your husband. For others, on either the HL or LL end of the spectrum, it may be because they desire to be treated equally and there's a unbalance in the relationship elsewhere. However, this does not require a well-defined "top" and "bottom" in many relationships, even though it worked for you.

In any case, again, congratulations on your success.

  • [-]
  • Lizceleste
  • 0 Points
  • 20:07:07, 20 July

I do acknowledge that I made sweeping statements. That's to be expected as I'm not a relationship expert or a sexologist, just a wife who realized that her anxiety and marital dysfunction weren't working.

Yes, my "power" in eliminating intimacy in our relationship had made me lose respect for my husband as an alpha male and caused me to lose desire for him. As far as us needing a top and a bottom, it is true that I realized suddenly that I craved stability and security, and submitting to him and allowing him to be there for me and care for me at the very least couldn't work any worse than the golden cage of OCD entrapment I'd created for myself. I do not disagree that this is not the cure-all for all relationships, but perhaps would encourage a LL partner to really, really assess WHAT is the root cause of their LL, and address it, even if it makes them uncomfortable at first consideration. My initial thought upon having my epiphany was, "ew, I can't do that...that would be letting my husband "win"!" Thank goodness I didn't listen to myself.

  • [-]
  • sidestreet
  • 4 Points
  • 16:28:28, 20 July

Glad to hear how everything has turned around for you. I'd be interested to hear how things are going for you in a year or so. I think changes that turn things around for a couple over a long time are great to hear.

  • [-]
  • amc2005
  • 5 Points
  • 15:51:47, 20 July

From a male's perspective, I've always had this thought process in more ways than just sex. I've never conceded control in a relationship, which has resulted in never having a DB. As you said, it can't be just the bedroom, it has to be control over most of the relationship. I feel that some men let themselves get into that situation by conceding this power willingly.

  • [-]
  • TopHatsAndGoggles
  • 2 Points
  • 16:09:39, 20 July

I am glad this has worked for you. A lot of women do crave men being more dominant, and it is great to see it working so well.

I am a bit doubtful about Rhett butler as a role model though. if you remember, he us fantastic the night he sweeps Scarlet upstairs, but in the morning he blows it by being sullen and angry instead of masterful and passionate. he could have totally had what he wanted with Scarlet if he had followed through on the night before instead of getting all sulky and flouncing off to Europe.

  • [-]
  • The-Pussy-Whisperer
  • 3 Points
  • 18:32:11, 20 July

Pssst. Be careful, knowledge is power.

  • [-]
  • VeraxVerax
  • 2 Points
  • 19:19:55, 20 July

This is amazing. A couple of questions:

How long has this been going? And,

What prompted/triggered you to make this sunning 180 degree change?

Okay maybe more than just two questions...

Was a no 'no' in the bedroom a request of his? I'm just in awe that a LL SO would make such a radical non gradual change.

Final very important comment: you are an amazing wife for doing that and you are definitely on the right track to a happy and loooooong marriage in my opinion. I am over the cloud for weeks if I just get a blow-job. I can't even comprehend how happy I would be of my wife did what you have done. Kudos to you, ma'am!

  • [-]
  • Lizceleste
  • 2 Points
  • 19:54:58, 20 July

I woke up in the middle of the night about 5 weeks ago and realized (it was like an epiphany, truly) that my micro-managing and control freak tendencies weren't working for me or anyone else in my home. My husband was respectful of my "need" to have space but neither of us were really happy. We co-parented, ran our business, and were friends. But I KNEW this wasn't the marriage or life I wanted and that I had to do something drastic, immediately. I did not want our children to grow up thinking that a complete lack of marital intimacy was normal.

No, my exact words were that "I cannot say no in regards to sex. To any requests at all. This right here is my blanket consensual non-consent and it's yours until I can't do this." This about put his jaw on the floor, especially considering my personal history. I was pretty brutally raped 14 years ago and trust and consent and arousal have always been a hard limit for me. I insisted on them or I pulled the "I'm just not into it" card. Before I talked to my husband (I woke up with the epiphany at 2 am and spoke to him at about 8 am) I spent time talking to myself about how I could trust him to never do anything that wasn't good for me. If he made a sexual advance or request he would NEVER hurt me. I'm his wife, the mother of his kids, he would NEVER hurt me and I needed to internalize that knowledge and trust it. He has made sexual requests over the past 5 weeks that have shocked me but guess what, I enjoyed it. Giving sexual control to someone who loves me and only ever wants the best for me and whom I can trust 100% has been a very liberating experience.

Yes, my husband can't believe or really comprehend WTF just happened. He's not questioning it. He is so happier. He joined a gym, started a diet, lost 15 lbs, is hanging out with the kids more. He watches less TV and is more active. Our lack of intimacy made him depressed, and it made me depressed as well. (edit for clarification).

I only hope that if a LL wife (or husband?) reads this they can think outside the box. We are sexual beings. We need sexual affirmation and emotional and intimate affirmation. Can a human be healthy and reach their fullest potential without it? No. I finally acknowledged that MY behavior and selfishness and closed-mindedness was the root cause of those deficiencies in my marriage and life and I decided that my entire family deserved better than a home wrought with tension and resentment.

  • [-]
  • torqles
  • 1 Points
  • 20:29:43, 20 July

Thanks so much for sharing

  • [-]
  • Lizceleste
  • -6 Points
  • 17:58:19, 20 July

I actually just spent an hour reading Redpill.

Here's the kicker....until my epiphany I was a super feminist. I would have have eschewed all of these concepts and behaviors.

The question we should all ask is this: Patriarchy worked pretty well, right?

  • [-]
  • Lopolane
  • 11 Points
  • 18:34:45, 20 July

> The question we should all ask is this: Patriarchy worked pretty well, right?

Lets not. There's no construct (hypothetical or real) that is the universal answer to everyone's problems.

  • [-]
  • Lizceleste
  • 0 Points
  • 19:59:40, 20 July

But at least we should have an open-minded discussion about whether it worked or not, and why it worked. There are ingrained social behaviors and truths that humans have evolved over millenia, we cannot expect to change gender roles dramatically over the past 150 years without addressing the impact it would have on society.

  • [-]
  • Lopolane
  • 1 Points
  • 21:11:23, 20 July

I'm just not into "patriarchy" discussions :)

  • [-]
  • PrivilegeCheckmate
  • 3 Points
  • 20:28:21, 20 July

> Patriarchy worked pretty well, right?

I find the red pill contains a lot of useful information, but's let's not forget what a real patriarchy is; Look at Saudi Arabia. Women can't drive, or vote, or travel, or go places alone. And as Gates pointed out, that means they're missing out on all the contributions to society those women could make. It does seem many if not most women are hard-wired for being dominated in the bedroom, or in the context of a relationship. This is very different from patriarchy, where they are effectively cut off from the society.

All the societies where patriarchy is still practiced, like Pakistan, or Yemen, are generations behind the rest of the world in terms of technology and societal progress. Inside the bedroom, patriarchy works pretty well for some. Outside of the bedroom you get a lot of bullshit restrictions on peoples's freedom.

  • [-]
  • MsCrane
  • 1 Points
  • 20:23:47, 20 July

Let's not go there. I'm glad that a bdsm-esque lifestyle relationship works for you. It works for me too, but we aren't everyone and should not presume that our lifestyle is for everyone.

Patriarchy was likely born out of necessity for the livelihood of the species. Infant mortality was a huge concern before modern medicine and technology. Ensuring women kept pumping out children, in hopes that some of them would be healthy and live, would have been a priority for much of human history (keep in mind, much of human history is unrecorded). Child bearing, birthing, and rearing would have occupied much of the time of most women, and any activity that the culture at the time might have considered dangerous to her or her child's health (like a job) would have been discouraged. Patriarchy would likely not exist if infant mortality had been as low as it is today.

My bf has said before that it's not surprising that many of the early feminists and suffragettes were the educated daughters and wives of lawyers, doctors, nobility, and gentry. If you were the daughter of a hard laborer you probably would have thought "Yeeep, house work seems fine to me."

  • [-]
  • aerynsun
  • 1 Points
  • 21:17:46, 20 July

I like having the right to vote and drive and make decisions without asking permission! Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq...all patriarchal societies so I would say NO. Just no. Ugh.

  • [-]
  • The-Pussy-Whisperer
  • 1 Points
  • 18:50:10, 20 July

You are going to need to turn over your feminist card before you return. lol.

(not really, but it seems like that is what is expected. RP isn't anti feminist, it's anti new-feminist. The ones where "equality" really isn't, it's more of pro-female while being as anti-male as humanly possible.)

  • [-]
  • Lizceleste
  • 1 Points
  • 20:00:21, 20 July

Clearly they never should have given me a feminist card in the first place. Ha, I was a mole from the very beginning!