Let me describe the exact two seconds I like about sex and see if reddit has any advice about liking the rest. (self.sex)

{sex}

28 ups - 0 downs = 28 votes

I enjoy sex for two seconds, literally. When my husband pushes himself into me and then his stroke out. After that all my wetness has sufficiently lubed me up and I don't feel him inside of me anymore. Positions meant for maximum penetration don't help me feel him more. Positions meant for less penetration cause him to fall out of me completely.

Potentially I could enjoy grinding against him, but I'm not really turned on or attracted to my husband so it is a lot of work to just close my eyes and concentrate on just the vaginal sensations and if he makes a sound, or moves, or messes up the rhythm (easy to do because this takes a long time, he has to be on top or it doesn't feel good to me) I just get turned off.

I hate foreplay and don't know how to tell him to touch me better because if I fantasize about another person (not a real person, a hypothetical one) I would enjoy the things he does. I've enjoyed lots of sexual experiences in previous relationships and foreplay stuff and I can't pinpoint anything my husband does differently. I'm just don't desire him.

I'm pretty sure this is my problem, because if I listed all the things that turn me off about my husband they would look silly and like he could never make me happy. And some things he can't really change like I hate that he wears brief underwear and for a bit he tried boxer briefs but those weren't a good look either and I'm just conditioned I guess to prefer boxers, but he isn't comfortable in them. When I see the underwear on the floor, on him, in our laundry, in a new package in a shopping bag I want to vomit and physically recoil. I can't stand the sound of him breathing close to me or feeling breath on me. He carries extra weight in his chest and has moobs, I don't like his smell even when he has just showered with soap I purchased. (we both smoked a pack a day when we met ) The list goes on and on.

This is the sex potion of my issue about not being attracted to my husband and is a quasi-cross post from here http://redd.it/2a28w2 .

120 comments submitted at 19:21:56 on Jul 7, 2014 by YellowGarden

  • [-]
  • DaveO1337
  • 92 Points
  • 19:36:21, 7 July

If you're that revolted by your husband why are you with him?

  • [-]
  • InhumanTarget
  • 24 Points
  • 19:48:49, 7 July

Yeah, this was my question, as well. I understand there might be a lot of situations where people tough it out, but this level of disinterest and unhappiness seems beyond that.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 51 Points
  • 20:14:38, 7 July

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • InhumanTarget
  • 21 Points
  • 20:16:50, 7 July

Yeah, it made me very unhappy in the feels. I wonder if her husband knows how she feels? God help him if he's living in la-la-land with this kind of stuff going on... that's going to be brutal.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 24 Points
  • 20:22:05, 7 July

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -4 Points
  • 20:40:08, 7 July

It's my personal computer. I am pretty careful with browser history. I don't know if he would be able to tell if I was the post author or commenter (that may be naive. he knows I hate his underwear.)

I've talked to him about some of this but I don't straight up say I am unattracted to him. Its no secret I never want sex and I've gotten more and more uncomfortable with foreplay so I've put it in the context of being sensitive to touch and not sure how to instruct him on how to touch me better. I certainly don't mention that past boyfriends have touched me much the same way and I loved it.

Most recently I've asked that we just go straight for sex (until I can figure the other stuff out) and for him to just try to last as long as possible and to match my rhythm. He is a really good sport. I do feel awful, but I don't think leaving him is the answer nor do I think that is what he wants.

He complained once that I research every detail on our lives (big purchases, child rearing) and that I don't research this, but the truth is I do. I quoted him the prices of recommended sex therapists but he isn't game to pay that yet (and I understand financial stress isn't good for a sex life either). Other than that just reading about sex stuff turns me on, but not with him.

  • [-]
  • treesbetch
  • 21 Points
  • 22:36:23, 7 July

> I certainly don't mention that past boyfriends have touched me much the same way and I loved it.

> I do feel awful, but I don't think leaving him is the answer nor do I think that is what he wants.

Firstly, let's be real, you DO NOT feel awful. You seem extremely selfish and quite frankly straight up mean. (I am really trying hard to use my euphemisms here). The fact that you are so repulsed by your husband, but not the act of sex/foreplay, yet you won't leave him is beyond me. You are essentially emasculating him without even realizing it.

Try to turn it around, say your husband found you repulsive, but was so turned on by others and the act of sex. How hurt would you be? And to top it all off he wouldn't even be decent enough to want to break it off so you two could find a more compatible SO (or at least one with mutual attraction). I mean seriously, it doesn't get more selfish than that. I pray for your husband. I can bet my lucky stars that he deserves better than to be thought of so cruelly. There obviously isn't any true love here.

Also if he read this thread and what you are saying, I can assure you he'd want out. He'd have to be a masochist to want to tolerate that.

I sincerely hope you are a troll.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 0 Points
  • 23:40:47, 7 July

I've told him that I am not turned on (at all) without specifying that I am not attracted to him and he wants to work on it. When I've felt really bad about myself and how I can't be giving in the bedroom I've mentioned that he would be better of with someone else and he tells me he doesn't want someone else. He also can't stand when I say anything not confident like that I am a bad wife or when I get overwhelmed and say I'm not the mother I want to be. I'm not trying to defend a problem I obviously need to work on, but I am trying to be as honest with my husband as is productive and not trick him into staying with me.

  • [-]
  • KendraSays
  • 6 Points
  • 03:14:12, 8 July

> but I am trying to be as honest with my husband as is productive and not trick him into staying with me.

Well, you're not trying hard enough if you haven't told him that you aren't attracted to him anymore. Telling him that what he is doing is cruel when you have a problem with him as an individual rather than his sexual technique. Also, adding comments about you being a bad wife and/or a bad mother isn't benefiting him, it's making you feel better because you know he'll deny it, give you sympathy, and internalize his frustration. Stop being sadistic and tell him the truth and seek counseling or divorce. No one deserves to be treated like this

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 5 Points
  • 22:31:27, 7 July

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • AsAlwaysItDepends
  • 5 Points
  • 00:04:00, 8 July

>• Personal attacks or name-calling of any kind will not be tolerated. It will result in your comment being removed and possibly your account being banned from the sub-reddit.

  • [-]
  • Landworth
  • 2 Points
  • 00:05:29, 8 July

My bad...

  • [-]
  • WuutWuut
  • 4 Points
  • 23:26:19, 7 July

Normally i would say that comments like this does not belong here... But this time you're spot on!

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -1 Points
  • 23:36:39, 7 July

Misogynistic language aside, I can agree that I don't like this part of myself.

Also reactions like this can be expected when I only write about the problems in our relationship which I am seeking help with.

  • [-]
  • kevinlar
  • 7 Points
  • 23:51:50, 7 July

Misogynistic isn't synonymous with rude.

  • [-]
  • CLASSYSKANK
  • 10 Points
  • 20:43:47, 7 July

I felt the same way. Poor guy.

  • [-]
  • iKhuu
  • 14 Points
  • 21:36:02, 7 July

Yeah, poor guy lol. His wife hasn't even been completely honest to him, and in my opinion, just seems very shallow and uncaring. Not going to act like I know their relationship, but it does seem very unhappy.

I hope he becomes wise and gets a divorce

  • [-]
  • treesbetch
  • 3 Points
  • 22:38:16, 7 July

me too.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -9 Points
  • 20:23:08, 7 July

To specify that is my reaction to his underwear. Whether I see it on him or on the floor in the bathroom or in our clean laundry bag.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -8 Points
  • 20:14:59, 7 July

We have a handful of children, we've been through a lot so there is a closeness/intimacy I feel with him from giving birth so many times with him (he is always by my side from labor to delivery) and having weathered some crisis together (ER visits, a child with a chronic condition).

Personality wise I do feel a big divide. I worry I don't respect him in too many areas. I don't love conversations with him, except stuff that has to do with our house, neighborhood gossip, and our children (which happens to take up a great deal of our talking time.)

We are very compatible in terms of child rearing and other life goals. I'm sure I could fill a couple of pages describing qualities of his I appreciate. I could probably fill an equal amount with those that I don't. Still he is a good father and good husband. Just chemistry wise there is no match and I knowingly got married despite this which I realize was not smart (but I can't say it was a mistake because of our children and who knows what the future holds for us).

I wrote about it here in the r/relationships http://redd.it/2a28w2

I still think if I could enjoy sex or even feel less uncomfortable it would go a long way to helping our relationship. I feel so bad too because he deserves a wife who adores him.

  • [-]
  • YoohooCthulhu
  • 14 Points
  • 21:29:13, 7 July

>I feel so bad too because he deserves a wife who adores him.

At some point you're going to have to decide if you're doing him, on net, any favors. Have you considered the possibility that you're taking advantage of him (i.e. your compatibility in life goals, which you apparently couldn't find with other people) while not really giving much in return?

I know you want to think that maybe, someday, you can give him something in return, but you have to consider the possibility that this might not be something you're capable of doing.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -5 Points
  • 21:47:44, 7 July

I certainly can see the selfish side. And I certainly feel selfish feelings at the prospect of getting divorced. I can't stand the idea of someone else being a parental figure to our children, I have an incredibly hard time letting anyone else take care of our one child with a health issue, it is hard work to have a blended family and give up the influence I have in our nuclear one.

And on the other side I do try to be as honest with him without stating verbatim "I am unattracted to you" but have said "never feel turned on" as if I cant imagine feeling that way with anyone, which for all intents and purposes is the truth because I would never cheat emotionally or physically.

He has been understanding and defensive and complained at times. He has never suggested divorce though. I think I give him something in return, just not an active and frequent enjoyment in sex.

He just got a nice raise and when I congratulated him he really thanked me and said he couldn't have done it without me and mentioned some examples of ways I help him (I got him the job opportunity as well - his merit and skills got him the job) so I think he feels he gets something in return. He credits me with dealing with and figuring out a lot of the bureaucracy that comes with our lives like buying a house, permits, health insurance claims, etc. He is a bit of a linear thinker and it can be hard for him to brainstorm and problem solve, his family is kind of like that too, so he appreciates all the things he learns from me.

Sometimes he criticizes other parents too and I think he is complimenting my parenting and likes that I parent differently. He is kind of a yo yo dieter and whenever he is losing weight is always thanks me a lot people I work hard to help him, have food ready and prepared, give him time to exercise, etc.

I know that sex is very important, maybe I am just a little defensive at the idea that I don't give him anything in return.

  • [-]
  • A_Starving_Scientist
  • 15 Points
  • 23:09:57, 7 July

In all honesty, and with all due respect, I want you to reread your post. To me, you sound like a satisfied accountant, not someone's life partner. What other people have said may indeed be true, and you are with your husband more for convenience and stability then emotional love and affection. I may not have alot of romantic experience myself, but If I were your husband I don't think I could bear being with someone who does not love me for me, faults and all. He may have his own reasons for complacency now, but this cannot last forever. Sex for men is the main way we feel closeness and intimacy, and it really does feel like we are in a frozen wasteland without that warmth. In the end, it is up to you to decide what is important for you, but I would be unable to morally justify your feelings if I where in your place. If you agree your husband deserves better, and you do in fact feel gratitude for what he has given you, either become the person he deserves or give him the chance to meet that person. As for your children: I was raised in a loveless marriage myself. I know how it feels to see that everyday, and I wish my parents had just separated amicably and found their own happiness then lived in a poorly masked farce for 27 years, with me building resentment with them all throughout. Kids are adaptable though, and even though it will be painful at first, I think they would be more healthy for them in the long run. Best of luck.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 01:03:05, 8 July

I do see how I sound like a satisfied accountant. I do feel like his life partner too. When life hurts badly I don't want to go through it with anyone but him and I think he feels the same, and likewise I wouldn't want to share the good times with any one else.

This isn't a direct response to your comment, more to all the commenters, but it is interesting that I posted here for sex advice and got a lot of relationship advice and posted to r/relationships and didn't get a lot of advice at all. I know these things go hand and hand, but I felt like if I could get through this mental block that makes sex so uncomfortable for me, and be able to do it more and even initiate it, it would be a good step forward for us.

It was a bit of a break through when I said I just wanted sex from him for now, no more foreplay, because I was never able to ask for what I wanted because I couldn't think of any foreplay I wanted. And he seemed happy to have any direction and the pressure of foreplay taken away (for now, my hope is to get that back at some point). When I was able to pinpoint the two seconds of sex I enjoy I was hoping to find a way to expand that a bit.

  • [-]
  • pancake_ice
  • 3 Points
  • 01:47:14, 8 July

I think you are not getting the responses you want because it is difficult to give good sex advice to a person that is repulsed by their partner. Like why would you want to initiate sex with someone you don't want to look at, smell or talk to?

Like most people here I feel sad for your situation and especially for your husband. I don't think I could be in a relationship like yours. I hope you can solve your issue and you both gain from your relationship. Good luck.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 3 Points
  • 05:12:25, 8 July

I'm new to reddit but I do know enough to never post to the internet expecting to hear what I want. You get what you get (and you don't get upset). It was just interesting how r/sex spouted relationship advice when I had posted in r/relationship started to describe the sex issue and then took that part here instead.

I want to initiate sex with my husband for endless reasons and I want to be attracted to him. I am so unattracted to so many things, so often that I am pretty sure this is my issue.

  • [-]
  • sexerver
  • 3 Points
  • 03:43:19, 8 July

You're not getting sex advice because it's painfully obvious that your issues have nothing to do with sex and everything to do with the fact that you don't love your husband, are not attracted to him at all, are even at times physically repulsed by him, and despite your protests to the contrary, probably actually dislike him.

Most disturbingly, it's the completely dispassionate tone of your posts that sends chills down my spine. Whereas one would expect at least unhappiness to permeate your posts, from you I get... nothing.

I dislike the tone and rudeness that has greeted you in this thread. People here weirdly take things personally at time. But I think the above may help understand why they are reacting this way in this case.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 3 Points
  • 05:47:59, 8 July

I don't claim to know the answer, but just to think about it the other way, because the person above you also said that our sex live isn't something I should be working on at all. But what if my irritation/resentment/bitterness (using commenter's words here) towards my husband and resulting feelings of unattraction is a manifestation of a sex issue? For lack of a better way of saying it, what if I just need a good lay? I am not trying to over simplify a marriage at all, but I don't think I am wrong in thinking it is beneficial to work on enjoying and wanting sex concurrently with other issues.

I appreciate you saying this. "Most disturbingly, it's the completely dispassionate tone of your posts that sends chills down my spine. Whereas one would expect at least unhappiness to permeate your posts, from you I get... nothing." It is a lot easier to see how people are reacting to me in those words than by calling me a see you en tea.

I am not sure if my writing is reflecting an emotional wall I put up, especially on the Internets. Or if it is the result of highly editing the original post so it didn't become a novel (though you seem to be responding to my comments too) or that maybe I lack passion in a lot of ways not just towards my husband or maybe the way I express passion is so methodical it can't really be called passion.

I first noticed that a tone I am not seeing so clearly was coming through in posts when someone wrote this http://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/2a2ot7/letmedescribetheexacttwosecondsilike/cir48dj "Firstly, I actually like how straight-forward you are. IMO, this is the type of talk that gets facts across... but, as evidenced here, some people automatically equate this to being a 'bitch'. Sigh."

Anyway thank you for listening and giving me something to think about.

  • [-]
  • sexerver
  • 1 Points
  • 13:50:42, 8 July

> But what if my irritation/resentment/bitterness (using commenter's words here) towards my husband and resulting feelings of unattraction is a manifestation of a sex issue? For lack of a better way of saying it, what if I just need a good lay?

I tend to think that you can't get a good lay from someone who repulses you, but human sexuality is a lot more complex than even sex-positive persons are often willing to admit. To use an extreme example, female orgasm during rape is more prevalent that is generally accepted. No, that doesn't mean rape is a "good lay." It just means that it is possible to experience pleasure from someone who repulses you. But this is all academic.

On the practical solutions side, I read your other replies, and believe that reddit has done all it can. I think you said that therapy is difficult proposition for many reasons, but you're just going to have to overcome them, because I don't see any other way. You must sit down and talk with a professional.

Good luck with everything.

  • [-]
  • A_Starving_Scientist
  • 2 Points
  • 03:08:30, 8 July

Still. Its good that your are atleast open to introspection and (Ill admit harsh) criticism. You do seem to care for him in your own way, and even though it might not come from the best sources its still something. For the sex atleast, why dont you try to identify what you like about those two seconds, and if there is a way to expand on that. Also take a hard look at your feelings towards your husband and identify specifically why it is you feel repulsed. By identifying and analyzing your feelings and their sources, it might help you make a decision on what to do. It is natural for desire to diminish with time, but this seems a bit excessive. Have you considered a medical reason for your condition? Get a check up for hormones or any physiological problems. Take a second look at your birth control if you're using any.

This may seem counter intuitive, but just try sleeping with your husband more. Try setting small goals for yourself, and try to see if you can slowly work upward. "Week 1, I will sleep with him once, and lie just a little closer to him afterwards. Week 2 I will sleep with him once and masturbate next to him. Week 3 I will sleep with him twice, etc." Finally, consider pair bonding activities that dont have to do with sex. Lie together. Hold his hand. Take a trip together. Give him more hugs, etc. You might feel disgusted. You might be repulsed. It will absolutely feel like a chore. But after a while you might discover yourself slowly connecting with your husband. If not, then atleast you tried and will have that off your conscience and have a better idea on how to proceed. And yes, do seek counseling.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 3 Points
  • 05:07:10, 8 July

I think you are the first one to mention birth control and hormone issues which surprised me because reddit is so enlightened and I first see those things mentioned when I Google around. I'm not on birth control though and haven't been since a few months after we got married (I was quitting smoking). I am often hormonally swaying because I'm often pregnant or nursing without menstrating or (now) nursing very little and menstrating.

I think the part I like is that I can feel it. I can't really feel PIV after two strokes like I'm naturally a very lubricated person, but non necessarily on the outside especially since I have trouble getting turned on with my husband so I think once he's been in me for a stroke or too he has spread that wetness around I just don't feel anything. As for why foreplay and being touched or kissed most of the time can really irritate me I don't have a solid answer.

Sometimes I do know i am touched out from taking care of my little children who all touch me with their cute, sticky hands non stop and grab me and pull me day and night. But most of the time there is something in my head that makes me think of every annoying thing in the world he does or notice it and not move on and it gets amplified in this hypersensitive way that manages to cover my body in tension.

That said whether it was a response to the anti-my-relationship comments here, or that I had a decompressing day where I was able to play on the Internet all day while the kids watched too much Amazon Prime, or I some how pulled out the mental energy to not let my thoughts runaway with themselves we ended up having sex tonight. I know nothing is fixed so quickly, but I felt really good and hopeful about it.

  • [-]
  • A_Starving_Scientist
  • 1 Points
  • 05:33:26, 8 July

Im happy for you. Baby steps. The hyper sensitivity you described can actually be related to a variety of things including stress and hormones. I would keep on eye on it and see how it changes with your cycle and as you stop nursing, see if there is any correlation between the time of the month and the irritation you feel. If you felt better today after being able to take breather, then maybe your problem is simply too much stress sapping your sex drive. You cant get around taking care of your kids, but when you retire to your room, see if you and your husband can give each other full body massages. My gf and I do that almost nightly, and it really helps ease the tension that we didn't even know we had. It can also help you get used to touch again.

  • [-]
  • geezopete
  • 1 Points
  • 03:22:55, 8 July

> if I could get through this mental block that makes sex so uncomfortable for me, and be able to do it more and even initiate it, it would be a good step forward for us.

I'm sorry, but...totally and completely wrong.

  • [-]
  • YoohooCthulhu
  • 2 Points
  • 23:53:32, 7 July

Well, as I said, ultimately you have to be the judge of that, because we aren't there to judge. But I wanted to point out that it's useful to consider the possibility. It seems that your negative feelings ("maybe he deserves someone that is attracted to him") might be a sign that you feel that way sometimes.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 0 Points
  • 01:32:00, 8 July

It's not maybe he does deserve that. I guess I'm just wanting that person to be me. I'm pretty sure that is what he'd like too. I don't really think he'd leave me over sex, so I guess I'm pretty confident that he feels I contribute to our marriage enough in other ways, but I certainly want to work on the sex part.

  • [-]
  • YoohooCthulhu
  • 1 Points
  • 00:12:00, 8 July

Also, the truth is that for some people sex ultimately doesn't matter that much. You two could end up being two people like that. But you shouldn't necessarily just assume that's the case.

I think the other thing that commentators here are honing in on is that you admit that you don't tell him exactly the way you feel. You should probably investigate that a little bit, because it seems like you might have the idea that if you did tell him how you really feel, your relationship would be over.

Also, as far as counseling goes, even if he did agree to that in the future, it's not something that works unless you're willing to be brutally honest.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 01:11:51, 8 July

I don't really think it would be over if I said I am not attracted to you (and included that I want to be and do not want to leave him for someone who does not exist) that I am more attracted to.

I just think it is an unnecessary insult. And it might not even be accurate, even if it is how I feel right now. What if there was some new blood test my doctor didn't consider that showed I had a hormone or vitamin imbalance and a pill could fix this? Or what if we did seperate and I met someone new I felt very attracted to, but then as I learned more of his faults I became unattracted. Then the statement I have been making to him about "nothing turning me on" is more accurate.

  • [-]
  • dagnart
  • 8 Points
  • 20:38:10, 7 July

There are people who, for the sake of children or friendship or whatever, enter into "companionate marriages" where sex is not involved and monogamy is not expected. I know very happy couples that do this. Being a good parent and working well together raising children is not something to be casually ignored. However, this only works if both parties are on board with it. It is not something that one party can dictate to the other. If he isn't really that interested in sex with you then maybe you can just move into another bedroom and be co-parents. If he really wants to have sex with his wife, though, you'll be better off getting an amicable divorce and staying close by to minimize the disruption to the children.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 20:46:17, 7 July

I've thought about how that might apply to other people in a similar situation. We are pretty religious though, live in a religious community, send our children to religious schools, etc and that is part of our shared life goals. I know for sure he would never agree and would divorce me if I got my kicks elsewhere. I can imagine he would eventually want to leave me if I refused to have sex ever again, but for now he wants to work through this. Sometimes I feel like I would feel better if he could be intimate with someone who really thinks he is hot and attractive and shows that sexually, but I do know I would resent the time it took away from our family.

  • [-]
  • dagnart
  • 3 Points
  • 22:03:44, 7 July

Couples counseling is what you want, then. If you are both willing to work at this then there is hope of finding a solution that allows you both to be happy.

  • [-]
  • linkprovidor
  • 2 Points
  • 22:38:13, 7 July

What about an open marriage?

You can be better at adoring him without being repulsed and you both can have better sex.

  • [-]
  • rdhcc
  • 1 Points
  • 22:55:18, 7 July

That's a slippery slope. My then husband and I tried to play that game thinking we were higher minded, confident in our relationship, and progressive. We were separated and dating other people within a year and a half. In our case, we were creating a tiny exit to our marriage and didn't even realize it. Be careful there.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 0 Points
  • 02:08:46, 8 July

I've thought about how that might apply to other people in a similar situation. We are pretty religious though, live in a religious community, send our children to religious schools, etc and that is part of our shared life goals. I know for sure he would never agree and would divorce me if I got my kicks elsewhere. I can imagine he would eventually want to leave me if I refused to have sex ever again, but for now he wants to work through this. Sometimes I feel like I would feel better if he could be intimate with someone who really thinks he is hot and attractive and shows that sexually, but I do know I would resent the time it took away from our family.

  • [-]
  • InhumanTarget
  • -4 Points
  • 20:23:44, 7 July

That's a tough one. I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of people go through the same thing.

Sorry to have been any sort of judgmental, as that is not what you were asking about. I don't really know what to suggest to you...

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -1 Points
  • 20:27:26, 7 July

It okay. I've gone on some other forums to talk about it every once in a while. Nothing is fixed and I feel like our problem has gotten progressively worse and I don't know why. At the same time sometimes by putting everything into words, getting asked certain questions, and formulating answers helps me learn more about myself. When I first wrote the original post it was really, really, really long and specified every touch I don't like and I added that the only thing I can think of that doesn't bother me is holding hands. So maybe I need to just start with just that.

  • [-]
  • dagnart
  • 28 Points
  • 20:13:07, 7 July

Good lord, nobody has that strong of a negative reaction to such specific little things unless they really don't like the person involved. You are not attracted to your husband. As you say, any other person and you would enjoy yourself. The problem isn't anything he is doing - it is him. Please do you both a favor and get some marital counseling.

Although, if that reaction to underwear is unrelated to him specifically you might seek some individual counseling yourself. That's a very strong reaction to a pretty mundane object. How can you shop for clothes if the mere sight of a package of briefs makes you want to vomit?

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -3 Points
  • 20:31:34, 7 July

They are just so feminine to me and the imagine/silhouette makes me uncomfortable and nauseas. All I can think of is that where and when I grew up boxers were cool and boxer briefs were okay if you had Marky Marks body. Still I am way too old to still be influenced by middle school antics.

  • [-]
  • dufus69
  • 20 Points
  • 21:01:54, 7 July

The problem is bigger that your sexual satisfaction. You don't sufficiently love or respect your husband. You value him for being a good guy, good father, etc., but that's on an intellectual level. The bedroom is where it's just the two of you, and from what you're describing, there's nothing good between you. Congratulations on self-reflection (without distorting to absolve yourself). To be honest, that's the ONLY thing you mention that gives your marriage a chance. As I see it, you should seek out counseling because you are the one with the problem. At some point, your therapist may want to include your husband in the process.

I question how motivated you are to make a real effort in this regard. If you don't do something to examine why you don't love a man that you think you should love, you'll probably string him along in this loveless marriage, eventually cheat on him, and then come clean. It's a shitty way to communicate and a lousy way to treat a man who is good to you.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 21:31:57, 7 July

That I self reflect and don't distort or place blame is what gives my marriage a chance?

I want to say I'm motivated, but I see the hesitation. I feel like I have a wall up and I don't know how it got there or how to begin taking it down.

He knows I am struggling and I try to be honest-ish if that is a word, because I don't think telling someone you are not attracted to them is helpful. That would hurt his confidence more than it probably is already and even if it was just for selfish reasons I find lack of confidence unattractive. And what if this is a little blip before an amazing sex life if I could just fix this, then he should never have to know or think I ever felt this way.

I'd never cheat on him, not even emotionally, or online. I am pretty certain he would leave me and how awful of me would it be to put effort into another relationship while we are struggling?

My parents amicably divorced and worked really hard to keep it friendly. They just now, worked together to take my oldest kids on a vacation, where they shared time with them. But it still makes divorce very taboo in my mind and not something I want unless there was an abuse issue. It isn't really in his vocabulary either. No one is trying to torture the other, we just feel stuck. And who is to say if I found someone I was insanely attracted to (after getting divorced) that there couldn't be other marriage issues or marriage issues so bad I stopped being attracted.

I look at our marriage as if to compare it to how awful I would feel if I wasn't married at all, not to compare it to if I was married to someone else or a figurative husband. I've heard my husband say the same thing.

  • [-]
  • schenker
  • 8 Points
  • 21:43:41, 7 July

> I look at our marriage as if to compare it to how awful I would feel if I wasn't married at all, not to compare it to if I was married to someone else or a figurative husband. I've heard my husband say the same thing.

What? You'd feel awful if you weren't married at all? Would you mind parsing that out a little? On the surface that sounds like you got married just to not be alone, and that's never the right reason to get married.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 4 Points
  • 22:02:06, 7 July

Yes I would feel awful if I was single. I like being married. I like having all our children. I like that the work I do and the things I am busy with all contribute to this. I don't know what I would do with myself otherwise. I shudder to think what life would be like if I hadn't been married this past decade.

I heard my husband say the same words once. He was talking about someone who was looking at his marriage and then looking over the fence idealizing what he thought someone else had and my husband clearly said that he thinks people should not look at other marriages or other potential relationships but to compare their own marriage to the sadness of not being married at all. And I always felt that way too.

  • [-]
  • danceydancetime
  • 12 Points
  • 00:43:50, 8 July

You guys settled HARD. Damn.

  • [-]
  • Silent-G
  • 4 Points
  • 23:38:55, 7 July

It sounds like you got married so you didn't have to be alone, not because you were in love. If you can't be happy by yourself, then you shouldn't force that responsibility on someone else, that's your own responsibility. I think both of you need some time to reflect on yourselves before deciding to be in a relationship with each other or anyone else.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 3 Points
  • 01:20:16, 8 July

I understand the concept of being happy by yourself first which is a constant for people to work on before and during marriage, but I think it is okay to want to be married and to be happy that you spent the last decade married even if it means the marriage was not perfect and is lacking in some way.

I don't really have friends who are not married (or do not have children for that matter), but I'm still in touch with a few friends from high school who are single and some seem happier than others, but for myself, I know that I'd be very unhappy without my family.

  • [-]
  • Silent-G
  • 4 Points
  • 02:03:19, 8 July

I think you're putting too much pressure on your family, especially your husband, to make you happy. You need something outside of your marriage and your children that makes you happy, otherwise you're forcing your husband to make you happy despite him being unable to arouse you. You're forcing yourself to feel physical attraction for someone that you aren't physically attracted to. It's like trying to use a spoon to cut wood, you're not using the right tool for the job.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 2 Points
  • 06:42:37, 8 July

I like reading books and listening to them on tape, I like spending time with my friends or texting with them. And I like fixing up my house. I also like child raising things I do like roller blading around, riding bikes through mud puddles, making up silly songs to diffuse tantrums, hanging out at playgrounds, finding new and interesting drive through bank/restaurant options so we can maximize car naps, spray parks, and zoos. I really like shopping and budgeting too and even all the paperwork (though it would be nice to be able to make important phone calls in peace).

Just while I was writing this I took a break to make up a story about dancing rainbow lollipops to dissuade a bad dream form returning. I don't love purchasing and preparing three meals and two snacks a day for everyone, repeating myself endlessly, bottomless loads of laundry, trying to coordinate so many schedules, but it sure keeps me busy. And I can't think of anything that would make me happier to be busy with so while of course I appreciate a brief escape with a friend or time alone to think or putz around on the Internet, it is mostly just to replenish my energy.

  • [-]
  • dufus69
  • 2 Points
  • 21:55:13, 7 July

Let me answer the first question you asked. Behavior change requires honest self-reflection. It's so easy to blame the other person. You don't project the problem onto your husband and charge him with not being romantic, not being in shape, etc. You take responsibility for the way you feel. That's a unique strength.

Where I find you to be lacking is in identifying any sense of urgency to make changes. What you're describing doesn't sound acceptable. You both deserve better. When people try to muscle their way through unacceptable situations, they falter during a weak moment. I think you need to start addressing the problem now, while you feel strong. Go for personal counseling. If you can't afford it, go to a support group.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 01:33:58, 8 July

Good advice.

It is interesting that I posted here for sex advice and got a lot of relationship advice and posted to r/relationships and didn't get a lot of advice at all. I know these things go hand and hand, but I felt like if I could get through this mental block that makes sex so uncomfortable for me, and be able to do it more and even initiate it, it would be a good step forward for us.

It was a bit of a break through when I said I just wanted sex from him for now, no more foreplay, because I was never able to ask for what I wanted because I couldn't think of any foreplay I wanted. And he seemed happy to have any direction and the pressure of foreplay taken away (for now, my hope is to get that back at some point). When I was able to pinpoint the two seconds of sex I enjoy I was hoping to find a way to expand that a bit.

  • [-]
  • YoohooCthulhu
  • 1 Points
  • 02:51:12, 8 July

> And what if this is a little blip before an amazing sex life if I could just fix this

I think this might be a bit of magical thinking on your part. There are people who go through sexual lulls--who start out attracted to each other but get off the track and become asexual for awhile until they get things sorted out. There are almost no examples I can think of where people start out in a marriage unattracted and then develop an amazing sex life.

In the best case scenario, you might get to a sort of situation where you don't feel repulsed or guilty having sex with your husband. But it doesn't really seem realistic to think you could actively want/desire him in that way--human psychology just doesn't seem to work that way.

>I look at our marriage as if to compare it to how awful I would feel if I wasn't married at all, not to compare it to if I was married to someone else or a figurative husband

A large number people think differently. I suspect I'm a similar age to you, and am unmarried because I can't abide by the idea of being married to someone for the sake of being married to someone if they fall short of what I'd want in a mate. I suspect a lot of counselors would be a bit critical of it as well. Saying "I'm with you because I feel I have no other options" is not particularly flattering to anyone. How would you feel to hear your husband say "Yeah, I wish I could have had a hot wife who would please me sexually. But I couldn't do any better than you and didn't want to be alone"?

I'm going to be a little controversial and suggest that the people you really want to talk to about this are either sex therapists or sex workers. It seems like you feel like you would like to be able to provide this for your husband, and are just trying to figure out how to make it less repulsive to you. In that scheme, it's sort of reasonable to see sex as something you figure out how to provide despite the fact that it does little for you. But the /r/sex community is going to be a lot of people who depend on attraction primarily, so they're not going to have a lot of insights on how you figure out how to have sex with someone you find semi-repulsive.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 07:01:09, 8 July

I have heard stories of couples who started out as practical mates, friends if you will, shared interests/life goals (which are pretty crucial for long term success) where an attraction grew where there wasn't one. I totally admit I was naive and and caught up in our compability factors, and of course these stories are as annecdotal as anything else, but I still believe it is possible and happens.

I don't feel guilty at all about sex. Just repulsed by foreplay and a lot of touching aside from PIV which I like for a very short moment before I can't feel anything. I am begging to feel fairly certain that something sensory is making me overly concentrate or irritations which make me feel unattracted to him more so than than in the beginning when I felt more neutral and optimistic. Or I'm manifesting other negative feelings and directing them at him which is causing the sensory issue. Either way I need to work with a professional on that.

I wouldn't say I married him for the sake of being married. I just got overly excited about our compatibility and overlooked chemistry the same way other people do the opposite.

I think my husband would say he wants to be with me and wishes the sex was more frequent, initiated by me, and hotter. Nothing about settling or feeling there were no better options. Maybe it helps to explain that we only had sex once before marriage, right before becoming engaged. We'd become increasingly religious together, and although we'd had past experiences, there was a mutual and gradual shift towards wanting sex to only be within marriage.

I have been pushing him to see a sex therapist with me. The price (plus he is imagine time, babysitting costs, etc) made him recoil, but hopefully it can happen soon for us.

  • [-]
  • Sqube
  • 15 Points
  • 20:33:15, 7 July

> I thought about masturbating next to him (or actually I do all the time when he is asleep) but when I hear his breathing or if he makes a noise in his sleep or if he gets too close to my part of the bed I get turned off and can't do it.

Imagine someone saying that to you. Imagine someone saying that the mere proximity of their significant other is a sexual turn-off. Nothing anyone here can say will make a difference. This isn't a "grin and bear it" type of situation. You might love your husband (I don't know anything on your relationship, so I won't speak on that) but you sure as shit aren't attracted to him. I'm not even convinced you like him.

You're going to need to give serious thought to therapy or divorce. I know it's the standard issue advice around here, but... wow. All those little things you're listing aren't the problem. It's the person doing them. If you're that repulsed by the person you're with, I'm thinking you probably shouldn't be with that person.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -1 Points
  • 20:55:13, 7 July

I hear that and it progressively got worse and I see how crazy it sounds. I do want therapy or at least sex therapy. I'm really pushing him with that but he has to be on board too, it has to be within the context of our religion, and the options feel out of our price range for now (and money woes are no good for sex either).

Like I can do yard work with him and enjoy his company for the most part, I can do most parenting stuff with him and enjoy his company, and we can talk about certain things I am interested in, but often when we talk about things besides the kids, I get overly annoyed at the way he organizes a story, or his opinions about what he is talking about. It is really awful.

I kind of wonder if I found a way to smoke pot half the day (I haven't smoked pot in 10 years) I would be less irritated by him. And why is it all on him? He can't possibly be that irritating. Why can't I be more irritated with my friends? I go walking three nights a week with a friend I enjoy for the most part, but she dominates the conversation and has some annoying qualities. And yet because she is my friend, a person to spend a few nights walking with a week, and also our children have play dates it just isn't a big deal. I don't know why I hold my husband to this awful, impractical standard.

  • [-]
  • CptnStarkos
  • 13 Points
  • 21:29:30, 7 July

Congratulations on marrying a friend.

Yes, I'm trying to be sarcastic.

I feel quite awful just reading the comments, I really don't know why you stay together... he has the right to be with someone who loves him AND RESPECTS HIM.

(sorry for my rant, some things hit closer to home)

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -1 Points
  • 21:54:03, 7 July

I see your point about him being a friend. I very naively thought that it was better to marry a friend, because eventually looks and game fade, but there I'll be beside a friend in the end.

I know for some people it just seems too awful to continue and children don't negate that. There is just this other side where we feel this could be a storm to weather or where we don't feel we are guaranteed more happiness with someone else.

I am superstitious and will not count children, but we really have a handful. It is a lot to manage while separated especially if we could remain that way or enter into new less than perfect relationships.

  • [-]
  • hopda-dada
  • 2 Points
  • 01:46:01, 8 July

You're using this thing called "Sunk cost" that accountants and redditors like to use in this situation. You feel that you have a lot invested in this married therefore you cannot "afford" to separate and begin anew. Somehow the investment you've made in the past should prevent you from going forward. You're also assuming that a new relationship will be "less than perfect". Currently, a new relationship looks like it would be a whole lot better than the one you have now. A working relationship with a friend you can barely tolerate for half a day at a time is what you have now. I can't see how a new romantic relationship could be any worse...

You also said earlier that you do not want to insult your husband by telling him the truth - that you are not attracted to him. There is a difference between telling the truth and insulting people. No doubt he would be upset by the revelation but he would also know the truth. You say he wants to "work this through". How can he work through this to the end if you will never be truthful with him?

To me at least, it looks as if you have a certain fondness and respect for your husband as a relatively good husband and father to the children and while you understand that you are not in love with him, you refuse to move forward and accept that separation and divorce are the next logical steps because that is too much of an upheaval for you to accept. Therefore you rationalize that both you and your husband both prefer the current situation.

  • [-]
  • the_gay_fairy
  • 2 Points
  • 04:02:57, 8 July

> . . . we don't feel we are guaranteed more happiness with someone else.

Couple things come to mind. One is, nothing is guaranteed. Two is, how could you be less happy with someone else? You can't even handle him breathing near you. That's how enemies behave.

Now I realize we're all different and I also see you recognize some value in being in a good position yourself before you start adding other people to your life. You think that you would be even less happy by yourself. I can't believe it. Think of all the things your husband does that you find annoying. They're. All. Gone. You don't have to deal with him breathing, his underwear, or his existence anymore.

I would go so far as to say that you would happier single than staying married as-is.

It's too bad you two decided to have so many kids. Kids aren't dumb - they can probably tell you two are not in love.

Since the entire problem seems to stem from a lack of attraction, or more correctly, an active dislike of him, I don't see how you can change that around with counseling. Divorce seems the most likely outcome, unless you both are OK with a loveless marriage. Even then, I see it ending in divorce once the kids leave. Really, would you be better off finding a new partner in 10-15-20 years or now? (For you, you shouldn't find anyone new for at least a year. Take that time to figure out yourself, you obviously skipped that step in your early adulthood.)

  • [-]
  • YoohooCthulhu
  • 1 Points
  • 04:38:25, 8 July

> Kids aren't dumb - they can probably tell you two are not in love.

So my Dad grew up with parents like this--parents who stayed together for practical reasons, but his Mom was never attracted to his Dad. It never fooled anyone. In her old age, she tried to convince herself that only really young (20ish) people have sex and that it's just something that old people don't do. We just stayed silent whenever she'd suggest stuff like that.

Anyway, the upshot is that my Dad got to believe--for a very long time--that women just use sex to manipulate men, that affection is used to manipulate men. It messed him up (and still messes him up, despite the fact that he does have a loving relationship with my Mom).

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 06:11:46, 8 July

I don't like the sound of anyone breathing. I mean I appreciate that they are breathing as in living, and when I notice he stops breathing at night I certainly wake him and encourage him to move positions and was the one who begged him to go to a sleep specialist where he was prescribed CPAP so maybe it's easier to understand that I am overly sensitive to that sound. I really can't stand loud breathing.

My husband's eldest sister feels the same way and it's like a big family joke that she'll yell in her sleep if she hears loud breathing. Maybe that is why my husband just nods when I complain about it.

I looked into misophonia which is intense anger from sounds, but I don't really fit the profile and either way there is no cure, just cognitive coping tricks which I am going to research anyway, since I've been learning from talking this out here that I'm definitely having a sensory issue.

I just don't see myself happy being single at all. The stuff I love talking/doing with him, admittedly a small list that includes our children, working on our house, and talking about what is going on with our friends takes up a whole lot of our time. So the time spent being irritated is smaller than it is coming across in my writing. Also intellectually I am pretty sure I am manifesting other feelings and turning it into this wedge in our relationship. I need to find someone to help me figure that out. Originally I was really pushing him to come to a sex therapist with me.

Thanks for listening.

  • [-]
  • ilenka
  • 2 Points
  • 03:24:25, 8 July

> And why is it all on him? He can't possibly be that irritating

>I don't know why I hold my husband to this awful, impractical standard.

He probably isn't that irritating... but the reason you feel that way, and the reason you hold him to a different standard might be... resentment.

I'm not saying you hate him or anything, but you are clearly not attracted to him at all. You are repulsed by him, even. And, in your mind, divorce is absolutely not an option. This means that you see yourself stuck with someone you are not attracted to for the rest of your life. So every little thing he does is registered (even if not on a conscious level) as "I'll have to suffer through that forever"

That builds resentment. That's why your situation has gotten progressively worse.

I'm very sorry for you, your husband and your kids. It sounds like an awful situation for everyone involved. But honestly, there's no magical way he can touch you to make sex enjoyable. You don't like him. You probably resent him on some level.

You could try going to therapy, not only for the sex issues, but because of everything else too. It's just going to get worse.

I definitely urge you to try and fix this any way you can, and I understand that divorce is such a taboo thing for you. But you have to start thinking about your future.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 2 Points
  • 06:18:02, 8 July

The resentment is spot on. I just wish I knew what I resented. I think it is the misplaced anger or resentment that is causing my feelings of unattraction. (Maybe, just thinking about it after talking thing out here a lot.)

Originally I had really been pushing my husband to find a way for us to afford (plus babysitting and time) sex therapy and he has been resistant, claiming price. I guess I felt like it would be easier for both of us to be really positive about regular talk therapy if the sex was better. Obviously I just need to start with cheaper regular therapy for myself.

  • [-]
  • ilenka
  • 1 Points
  • 17:27:39, 8 July

Were you ever attracted to him? If you weren't, maybe it's the other way around... maybe it's the feelings of unattraction that are causing the resentment and anger, that feed the unattraction even more and so on, escalating the situation to what it is now...

  • [-]
  • Precastwig
  • 1 Points
  • 21:03:27, 7 July

Seems like some sort of therapist would be best. But that's just from an outside perspective

  • [-]
  • reader7331
  • 9 Points
  • 20:53:09, 7 July

Yeah, I'm gonna say that this one is beyond Reddit -- you need to talk to a counselor.

If you aren't attracted to your husband, there's no easy way to patch that up. You could divorce. Or you could agree to live together in a sexless marriage, and give one another the freedom to go elsewhere for sexual gratification (not as uncommon a situation as people might think).

  • [-]
  • YoohooCthulhu
  • 6 Points
  • 21:18:40, 7 July

>but I'm not really turned on or attracted to my husband

That's your problem right there. Everyone wants to enjoy sex with people they're not attracted to, but I don't think everyone is wired that way, only certain people. Your question about how to enjoy sex with someone you dislike/don't feel attracted to is similar to gay men asking how they can enjoy having sex with women. They usually can't.

You say you're not interested in leaving your husband who you have a handful of kids with. How do you think he feels, having sex with someone who isn't attracted to him? I don't think you're fooling him.

You know, divorce doesn't have to be as detrimental to kids as you seem to think. It would probably be a lot mentally healthier for both of you to actually be with people you can tolerate.

  • [-]
  • rbkc1234
  • 3 Points
  • 22:45:57, 7 July

I just want to say that I think you have got this parsed out already, you aren't in denial, aren't blaming anyone outside yourself. You are at a point where therapy might really help you see what actions you can take. If you can't afford therapy, and are religious, can you confide in your priest or imam or whoever? Pray for guidance? The only ways i see this playing out are you have a magical change of heart (you seem to want this) or you gain acceptance of your situation (wouldn't work for me, does not seem great for him) or you lay it all out to him and split if you have to.

I have plenty of kids- when my ex got unattractive to me it was because he got drunk and abusive so it was easier for me to leave, but our lives all changed for the better and i do have someone who is a great lover and a great Dad, and ended up with a combined total of very many kids. So happy for the changes.

How important is sex to you? How important is it to him?

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 23:49:58, 7 July

There are clergy or people within our religion with PhDs and counselors with real master's degrees too. He has so far recoiled at the price. I was actually pushing for sex therapy first and that was expensive plus we'd have to find time, hire babysitters (one of my children needs a more adult babysitter than a high school girl), etc. I think it is worth it and hopefully he'll come around soon.

  • [-]
  • rbkc1234
  • 3 Points
  • 00:48:15, 8 July

At a real keyboard now. I do have a lot of compassion for your situation. I do not believe desire can be compelled. Can you pinpoint when it changed for you? Did you like the sex in the beginning? Has he changed? Have you changed? What has led to this point?

I used to think it didn't really matter who my man was, that if you wanted to make it work you could, that it had more to do with accepting and understanding than compatibility. We had the 25 years and the handful of kids like y'all, and my feeling was that if I couldn't get attracted to my guy, I wasn't going to find anything better, that the problem was with me. It was only when he was clearly harming the kids that I was able to take action, and only when I could clearly see that it would be better for us for me to be alone than with him; but it did turn out much better, my life is better now, my kids are happier too. I was wrong, both about being alone, I found a good man, and wrong about it not making a difference - it makes a big difference to have someone sexually compatible, I love having lots of sex, it makes my life happier. Your situation is different because you don't seem to have a reason to be unattracted to your husband and he's not doing anything to harm you or the kids, so I see why you don't want to disrupt the family for what you think is not a good enough reason to. And while you are not sure, I agree it's best not to change anything, it can wait.

I do think that you will have to be honest with him at some point, he probably won't go to counseling when you aren't willing to leave him and are willing to have sex even if you aren't into it, his motivation may not be high because he may think you are overstating your discomfort, though I don't know what he's going to be able to do with "I just am not attracted to you" if you can't give him any specifics on things he could work on or that you could work on together. It does seem like just being hurtful, but you seem stuck, it's bad already so may need to break to be fixed.

I hope you guys can have a thorough airing out of all of this, and work through it together.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 0 Points
  • 01:50:22, 8 July

I'm really glad you found happiness and appreciate your positive comments.

You are definitely right that if there was abuse I would not be interested in working on the marriage (or advice anyone else to do so). But it is more than "well he isn't abusive.." he is a good parent and husband. He is no saint and can lose his patience, make mistakes, say unkind things, etc but we are all works in progress.

  • [-]
  • Nudgette
  • 3 Points
  • 20:47:30, 7 July

My big question for you is this: are you sexually attracted to other people? And are you happy with your husband? Looking through your other comments, it doesn't really seen like it. I don't want to advise you on the future of your marriage, but I can't avoid it... just think about your happiness, his, your kids'... that's all. If you're not attracted to him, that's that. I mean, you sound like you try, and it's just not there...

  • [-]
  • YoohooCthulhu
  • 1 Points
  • 04:41:17, 8 July

It is possible that OP is asexual.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -3 Points
  • 21:08:49, 7 July

I can think of people I find attractive but I am not certain I am attracted to them. I sometimes fantasize about an exboyfriend or a fictional person and just daydream about being in a relationship and making out, but I think that is more of a mental escape from my adult life and it doesn't happen often. When I bring myself to orgasim I just think about the same typical sex fantasy I've thought about since I learned to masturbate. I've never been he type to just be attracted to someone based on looks alone (though they helped) it was a combination of looks and game and something primal I just can't explain.

  • [-]
  • Nudgette
  • 1 Points
  • 21:34:42, 7 July

Have you had good sex/sexual experiences with other people?

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 21:56:57, 7 July

Yes, but they weren't good relationships. In the end I choose what felt like the good relationship, assuming the attraction would come, but that was naive (I don't say mistake because we have children and can salvage this)

For instance one guy I dated that I was insanely attracted to and sometimes I still think about us back then and get goosebumps, but intellectually I see what kind of husband he is and am very happy I didn't end up with him. There is no way I would still be attracted to him if I had to put up with what his wife puts up with.

  • [-]
  • Schimmelreiter
  • 2 Points
  • 19:27:14, 7 July

If you like grinding as stimulation, here's something you could try. I had a girlfriend who would masturbate by grinding on pillows, or the edge of her mattress. I didn't know about this until I asked her to masturbate for me, and she just straddled my thigh and went to town.

I thought it was way hot, and that might be a great way for you to have an orgasm that you both can enjoy.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -4 Points
  • 20:07:09, 7 July

I thought about masturbating next to him (or actually I do all the time when he is asleep) but when I hear his breathing or if he makes a noise in his sleep or if he gets too close to my part of the bed I get turned off and can't do it.

  • [-]
  • toronto_newbie
  • 2 Points
  • 21:45:25, 7 July

It sounds to me like you could improve a lot of this with his help. In some of your comments you've described him as 'a good husband and a good father'. I imagine he's a pretty caring and good person. You've already spoken to him about it - I think the thing to do is ASK HIM TO HELP.

Not every part of your problems are quick fixes, but some of them are things he can help with. He sounds like a person who's willing to step up and help out if he knows how much good it'll do.

Explain to him how bad the underwear thing is for you. Yes, he finds boxers uncomfortable, but if you explain how much it means to you, he may be up for making the change. Again, explain how important it is to you. It's ok to admit that it's something you know is a bit unusual to ask, but maybe it'll help him make sense of it. Guys tend to think in practical terms, not emotional ones. Help him understand how it makes you feel.

Secondly, you need to ask him to lose weight. You need to tell him that when he's fit, he's more attractive to you. That if he tones up his chest it'll make him better-looking. This can be hard to motivate him for, but work with him on it.

Those two things won't solve everything. But they'd be a start.

  • [-]
  • the_gay_fairy
  • 1 Points
  • 04:11:51, 8 July

This sounds a little bit silly, but upon thinking about it I rather like the idea. It's simple and to the point - if his wife believes that his X is a problem, where X is underwear or body type, then certainly changing X would remove the problem. Now, if it doesn't, then it was never about X to start with, X just got blamed.

So, I think OP should go ahead and actually try explaining these things and see if her husband is willing to work on them. If they don't work then they know it had nothing to do with her husband (and I rather suspect this is the result). If it does, then great.

The thing with people is you can't fundamentally change them. You can change their weight, their hairiness, their underwear. But you can't change who they are. Going into a relationship where people "need some work" isn't one that works.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 08:08:00, 8 July

torontonewbie, thegay_fairy is right in his first paragraph. Sure I would like him to wear different underwear (which I certainly purchased when we first got married and now I've grown to impolitely nag "where are your shorts/pant?!" or pointedly tell him where the sporty shorts or pants he likes to wear around the house are, if I should happen to know, during those occasions when he might walk around in a shirt and underwear).

But I can't point blank tell him changing will lead to better sex because I can't promise that. Same with the weight. In fact he is a much better dresser than when we first met and I'm so happy about that, but it doesn't magically make me want to jump his bones when he comes home from work (before taking off the clothes I like), it just makes me less irritated.

I think it is fair to ask and help him work on little changes, but the big issues is I need to chill the hell out and not let all these nuances overwhelm my brain 24/7.

He has been a yo-yo dieter since we got married. I try to encourage and help with food prep and he thanks me when I do but it is hard for him. And let's face it other times he comes home and there is no food except noodles and Trader Joe's spaceship cheese crackers all over the kitchen floor.

  • [-]
  • BipolarTypeOne
  • 2 Points
  • 23:18:36, 7 July

This much bitterness towards someone else close to you suggests a high degree of bitterness towards yourself. If you felt better about yourself, is it possible you might detest your husband less?

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 23:47:49, 7 July

100% I am certainly overly judgemental of him and let it affect my feelings for him and I am overly judgemental of myself, though to a lesser extent. And even crazier I judge him for being judgemental! Like I can't stand when he says something not nice about other drivers when we are in a car or comes home and tells me some story abut other bad drivers. He doesn't even swear at them anymore, but I get so aggravated and just want to throw up my hands and tell him to move to the country or stop driving (except he does it when I am driving too). But here I am being so judgmental of him. It's terrible and I need to find a way to fix this.

  • [-]
  • BipolarTypeOne
  • 1 Points
  • 00:16:40, 8 July

I hope you will be able to get professional help individually and together. The bitterness underlying your post will break your relationship if you don't get help.

  • [-]
  • Laynaro
  • 2 Points
  • 23:52:28, 7 July

Firstly, I actually like how straight-forward you are. IMO, this is the type of talk that gets facts across... but, as evidenced here, some people automatically equate this to being a 'bitch'. Sigh.

Secondly, how lucky he is to have you? I cannot say because he is not here commenting, but, you sound very lucky to have him. You are able to actually tell him things some females would hesitate to tell their significant other (many put up with bad sex for fear of hurting feelings)... It is quite nice. Would be very helpful if you guys do end up going to a seek help from a professional. :)

My main point: Did you ever enjoy sex with your husband, maybe when the both of you started dating, during some "honeymoon phase"? I ask because, if yes, it may be because your husband is too often always there for you. Yes, this is a very good trait to have as a father and a husband, but, not as a lover! Domestic needs often times do not match with sexual ones, so, if not recognized, can lead to situations such as yours (love having him around as a husband because he is like a dependable rock, but it is stifling as there is no sexual excitement because of lack of uncertainty).

If you can relate in any way to my last paragraph, I would recommend Esther Perel's "Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence" (Amazon link). There is also a TED talk given by her that touches quickly on topics discussed in her book, here (link). Trust me, her findings are quite eye-opening.

Others are telling you that they feel bad for your husband, and that they are feeling quite negative in general in regards to your relationship with him. However, I think maybe are just questions that haven't been asked - ones that even you (who research everything) may have not thought to look up on. So, have a look at the links I gave you. Maybe you will have a, "Eureka!" moment.

Good luck. :)

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 0 Points
  • 01:46:21, 8 July

He seems happy with me, he seems happier with me, than I am with him, which I am sure can't last, but at least I am trying and promise him I am trying.

I have and did enjoy sex with my husband on occasion, but I do not ever remember feeling a hunger for his touch or a strong desire. It was more like my body parts work and parts of sex felt good, but for some reason the parts that felt good feel less and less good and the parts that merely I didn't mind like foreplay make my skin crawl.

I definitely relate to that paragraph and I will look at the book. We're Jewish too and I wonder if that will make her advice even more relatable.

  • [-]
  • danceydancetime
  • 2 Points
  • 00:42:39, 8 July

I think you should divorce your husband, like, yesterday...

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • -2 Points
  • 01:42:16, 8 July

So he could go out an have lots of sex? It so much to explain, but it isn't like that would happen. We are very religious. He wouldn't sleep with someone else without marrying her. I think we both feel like we have a better chance of working this out with each other (and more to gain) than taking a chance of finding a better relationship.

  • [-]
  • danceydancetime
  • 3 Points
  • 02:57:37, 8 July

That is not even a little bit what my point is. I would divorce so that he's not in what seems like a loveless marriage that you sound super miserable in. You're not supposed to be revolted by your husband. It sounds like you guys just settled for each other because you would rather be together with somebody (anybody) than be alone.

Are you guys in love? Were you ever in love? Why did you get married?

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 07:29:10, 8 July

I wouldn't say I married him for the sake of being married. I just got overly excited about our compatibility and overlooked chemistry the same way other people do the opposite. Now I'm either projecting unrelated negative feelings onto him and causing these sensory issues in the bedroom or I'm having sensory issues everywhere and they are translating as unattraction and annoyance in my brain. I'm not sure. It is just what I've been able to talk out on this post today. Obviously I need to go over it with a professional. I tried talking it out a bit (we had like three minutes) with my husband and he patted my head and said "if you can get angry at me for things I do in your dreams anything is possible" If that isn't love I don't know what is.

  • [-]
  • 18thcenturyPolecat
  • 2 Points
  • 03:04:47, 8 July

Have you EVER been attracted to your husband? Honest to goodness, the way you describe your visceral aversion to him is how I (and I think most people) feel about people who are non-viable for relationships- exes we find gross, platonic friends, family members..?!

You aren't talking about alterable behavioral quirks- it's not like he just kisses with too much tongue and can work on it. The way he touches you, stays close to you, and loves you makes you sexually repulsed. You dont even like the way he talks to you.

Healthy relationships are based off of the exact opposite of those things.

It is as far as I am aware, impossible to ham-fist sexual attraction into a relationship. At functional best, if you date someone you aren't initially physically wowed by, chemistry and desire develop quickly out of overhelming attraction to their sense of humor, behavior, personality, etc. This occasionally happens and their weird undies and bumpy nose become just quirks of someone who drives you wild, not major turn offs.

This didn't happen for you.

. He really deserves to make someone feel warm and electrified and happy, and you deserve someone who makes you feel that way. Successful relationships have that chemistry from the start, and it may quiet a bit, but it never turns to revulsion. Im thinking you married a great man- but not a great man you're in love with.

  • [-]
  • writers_block
  • 1 Points
  • 02:59:04, 8 July

You live a life I cannot imagine.

  • [-]
  • 0to60in2minutes
  • 1 Points
  • 02:21:52, 8 July

Is there anything about him you find attractive?

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 07:45:22, 8 July

Yes certainly and I should be listing them more. Height, strong arms, broad shoulders, hard working, fiercely loyal and then their are moments, moments when I feel very understood and connected to him and moments when I feel terribly misunderstood and disconnected, times when he is hysterical, and times when he tries to be funny but is annoying (like everyone else's husband I know is sometimes). The problem is I fixate on the annoying, let it over shadow things, and irritate myself with how irritated I am.

  • [-]
  • 0to60in2minutes
  • 2 Points
  • 12:32:47, 8 July

So you need to work refocusing. When you start to fixate on the annoying things you need to catch yourself. When you catch yourself, you need to say to yourself "but I like ______ about him so much". Or you need to capture the moments and things an recall them in these times. Just a little mental excercises might help, but as with a lot of others here I think you new to speak to someone

  • [-]
  • halfahyperbole
  • 1 Points
  • 04:43:08, 8 July

Here's a thought: You may be fixating excessively on the things that irritate you. I'm sure they're incredibly irritating! But I have also seen it where a fixation can develop that becomes almost consuming and kind of feeds on itself, growing in intensity that exceeds the original irritation.

Unhooking from a fixation like this can be difficult. The best cognitive-behavioral approaches I've seen are in a book called The Tools.

On an unrelated note, given his physique, could you switch your household's diet habits up, maybe go more paleo with less sugar, grains, and soy? I also wonder if you could find a kind but direct way to ask him to start working out, maybe with a trainer if you can swing the expense.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 07:41:50, 8 July

Your first paragraph is 100% correct and thank you for the book recommendation.

He has really yo-yo dieted since we've been together. First I introduced him to weight watchers and after learning more I talked up a sort of keto-paleo to him which he's translated into Atkins i guess because his diet soda addiction runs so deep. He tries sometimes. He really does. It is hard. I go through phases too of grabbing more carby items because I am tired and need the energy/clear head and getting back on track.

Same thing with exercise I've motivated him to do p90 or similar resistance training in the past, but things fissle out. He can work long hours somethings and spends some evenings at a community things plus watches a few shows/plays a video game to decompress.

  • [-]
  • halfahyperbole
  • 1 Points
  • 15:55:09, 8 July

I hope the book turns out to be useful! I've fixated like this before and I know how exhausting and consuming it can be. It can get to the point where, as you said, even just seeing the slightest visual reminder or having a thought cross your mind can fill you with revulsion or fury (over something that objectively is a small detail).

I'm no expert at getting rid of it...but I can say from experience that once I'm able to shake free of something like this, the thing that used to seem profoundly irritating may end up being only a minor annoyance. And the peace of mind is a massive relief. Sending good wishes to you!!

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 2 Points
  • 16:25:16, 8 July

Thank you very very very much. It is nice to hear of someone over coming this and that I'm not the only one something like this can happen to.

  • [-]
  • DrunkHouseWife
  • 1 Points
  • 05:09:22, 8 July

Are you on hormonal birth control?

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 07:50:33, 8 July

No and no other meds either except for vitamins when I remember. I'm surprised more people didn't as about this though. I get pretty extensive blood testing both when I am pregnant and when I am not too and nothing has been abnormal, but I'm wondering if there is a test I'm not asking for.

  • [-]
  • DrunkHouseWife
  • 2 Points
  • 13:58:31, 8 July

I'd ask my dr about it anyway, just to make sure. I think most people here are hung up on your lack of attraction for your DH, while still having a libido. I'm guessing this is why no one is suggesting hormones. But I went through a period where I was seriously turned off by my partner, although I generally thought I had a libido. I would think that I wanted sex and masturbate, but my SO completely repulsed me. It was a very confusing and difficult time. My point is that didn't present as a typical "BC killed my libido" case. But it was. When I finally quit taking BC, everything got back to normal within a few months. So, maybe it is hormonal. Because I would think that if you chose to marry your best friend for security and longevity, even if he wasn't what you're typically attracted to, you aught to be able to enjoy sex together every now and then just because you both need it and love each other. The fact that you're so repulsed by such little things makes me think that maybe it's a symptom of something else. Either your hormones are out of whack, or you're very unhappy about something you're not addressing and it's presenting in this way. Can you see a psychologist on your own? I think you need help with associations. Being so drastically repulsed by a style of underwear means something.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 15:17:19, 8 July

Yes, yes, and yes. I did not know low libido could present itself as being turned off by a partner and not by masturbating. I thought I asked my doctor to check everything and I mentioned low drive, but she is a mother of several herself and probably chalked things up to being tired and a little stressed. She said labs were normal, but I have moved recently so I'll be trying a new doctor anyway.

I've been repulsed by "tighty whiteys' since at least 6th grade. Is that really that weird? They were kind of made the laughing stock of everything. My husband doesn't wear white ones, but I find the line they make on a man's body so feminine and also I find the whole shape unattractive. I can appreciate a nice body in a speedo, but anyone else and the brief style fit which is a little different is really gross to me. I see pictures of lumpy bodied men in speedos being made fun of all the time on memes so even though briefs are a little different I didn't think it was that weird to feel they are 100% unsexy. Maybe it is just my generation? If briefs were old man underwear and boys of my generation were wearing baggy pants hanging down with their boxers peaking out maybe it is hard for the skinny jeans/pants painted on boys of today whom I am guessing are wearing briefs to think anything can be unattractive about that underwear.

  • [-]
  • DrunkHouseWife
  • 1 Points
  • 19:41:25, 8 July

I hear you. But I'm 38. Based on some of your pop culture references, I think you and I are from the same generation. I don't think tighty whiteys are sexy either. By the same token, I would never be caught dead in a pair of granny panties. There were lots of things like that when we were kids. We harshly judged people based on the most trivial things. But then our opinions and preferences are supposed to mature with age and most of us outgrow that juvenile judgmental faze. But I think you still hold on to some of those childish prejudices. Don't get me wrong - it's fine to think boxers are sexy and that briefs are not. But to have so much disdain for briefs that even a package of them grosses you out is (IMO) childish. That's what I would expect a 12 yr old girl to do. "Eeeww, gross! Those are old man underwear!!" You know what I mean? I think that as a kid growing into a young woman, you formed opinions about what is and isn't sexy based primarily on outside influences (like most of us did). And, because of age and immaturity - whatever wasn't sexy was gross. Now that you're all grown up, your husband looks like the kind of guy you would've fake barfed at if your schoolyard girlfriends teased you with "oooh, there's your boyfriend!" Instead of seeing him through the eyes of the woman who loves him, who has grown with him, who has matured with him, who he has loved and supported and grown with... You see him through the eyes of a snotty teenager. That's what's gotta change. I think you should be able to enjoy sex with your husband, even if he never really had "game".

I could be totally wrong. But if I'm right, I think the big question is why your inner snotty teen still has such a huge impact on your life. That's what professionals are for.

As for the hormonal stuff - yeah, ask your new dr. It may be more psychological than hormonal, but I think either one is possible.

  • [-]
  • NiceGirlsFinishLast2
  • 1 Points
  • 18:12:05, 8 July

I will not touch on the unattraction at all, even though it makes me sad. :( Sounds like you should tell your hubby you love feeling his cock penetrate you slowly from tip to base, and then have him pull it out slowly as well. If those 2 seconds of insertion and pullout feel great, then maybe ask him to do just that. I'm sure if he's able to hear any satisfaction out of you after what you just said and the way you admitted how unattracted to him you are, he will see your pleasure and probably get off as well.

I'm sorry I know I said I wasn't going to say anything... But you you aren't just unattracted to him, but REPULSED by him, the sex will never be fixed. :(

  • [-]
  • 3clipse
  • 1 Points
  • 04:31:36, 8 July

"I hate my husband, here are all the things I hate about him"

Dude you don't need advice on sex, you need a divorce.

  • [-]
  • FakeNigelTufnel
  • -1 Points
  • 21:47:12, 7 July

Some folks are critical of you because you don't respect him. I think respect is something that has to be earned. He needs to be attuned to your needs and start earning some respect.

Does he annoy you by seeking your opinion when you wish he would just make a decision?

Does he seem like he just isn't trying anymore to impress you?

Are you pretty sure that if you really wanted to, you could do better?

  • [-]
  • JoeMarron
  • 1 Points
  • 23:56:12, 7 July

I'm getting the impression that he's the typical "idk what do you wanna do?" type of dude. The type of dude who defers to his wife for everything and proudly exclaims that she wears the pants in the relationship. I bet he takes this spineless, passive attitude into the bedroom as well. No wonder she's so repulsed by him.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 02:00:42, 8 July

It is not exactly like that and I use to be turned off by the passiveness in the bedroom, but this was early in our marriage when talking about stuff was harder for me and of course after my waning interest who can blame him for a spineless attitude? It doesn't help that there have been portions of our sex life when I have needed things very gentle (after a traumatic birth) or dryness for a while after another.

You are the first one to mention passivity here and I feel very confused about how it plays into our marriage. I feel very much like I dislike a lot about him that I see as feminine (and I admit that some of these are my own societal hang ups) like moobs, can't see adam's apple, little body hair, can only grow a goatee not a full beard, kissy cuddly bedroom behavior, wearing briefs (I find the line on the leg feminine), when he comes out of the shower with a towel wrapped up to his arm pits like I would wear a towel, how he crosses his legs sometimes, how smiley he is (I feel like such a shit that this stuff bothers me), when he walks around the house with his shirt tucked into athletic shorts, saying "i love you" every damn time he cums two breaths after, how sensitive and offended he gets about certain things or people, etc etc

But then on the other hand I seem to really dislike his high testosterone side like being overly defensive, swearing too much or getting too frustrated when building something, complaining and swearing about other drivers, a vindictive attitude towards conflicts that is not productive.

Which makes me feel like it is more a problem with me nit picking and not being able to ignore things. Sigh. Thanks for listening.

  • [-]
  • JoeMarron
  • 1 Points
  • 03:14:41, 8 July

I'd say that high test side is more jerkish behavior than manly behavior. This is why I suggested that you let him read the book that the guy suggested in the other thread you posted. I'm willing to bet that most of your problems with him needs to be dealt with on his end. The more we're attracted to someone the less the little things bother us.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 07:07:19, 8 July

I agree and thank you for seconding the recommendation of the book.

  • [-]
  • JXAWFM
  • 1 Points
  • 03:20:55, 8 July

Maybe a copy of something like:

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738/ref=sr11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1404789213&sr=1-1&keywords=game

...and leave it somewhere not out in the open, but where he will accidently come across it.

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 15:42:32, 8 July

Thank you.

I just realized he is "accidently" suppose to come across it. Is that accurate? If I left a book out on the open he would say "where did this come from?" I'd have to put it in the attic or the basement so he'd think the old owners left it here and who knows if he would throw it out.

Is there any chance there is a documentary or a pod cast on the same theme? He does try to learn about things when I ask, but he really spends most of his time reading two q and it is hard to add another one in.

  • [-]
  • the_gay_fairy
  • 1 Points
  • 04:22:21, 8 July

The funny thing is high testosterone would actually prevent moobs, give more body hair, and give a better beard. I think the "high testosterone" behavior you're talking about has nothing to do with hormones and more to do with having a short temper/being a jerk. I'm aware you said he is a good father and is not abusive in any way. That's all great, but it doesn't mean he can't also be a jerk/jackass.

You seem more attracted to classic masculine features. This makes sense, of course, but you realize he can't fundamentally change a lot of those things. The man boobs is a generic overweight problem, and I think a lot of people understand being overweight is not attractive. I can't possibly fault you for having a particular taste in men. I can question why you would marry someone who doesn't line up with your preferences even a little.

Also, this may sound batshit crazy, but re-reading your first paragraph in the OP: is your husband's penis particularly small? Those are all things that would generally happen with a small penis. And obviously a small penis is not "classically masculine," so that wouldn't be helping him out any in your eyes. Again, nothing you can do about it. You could ask for a penis sleeve or toy, but it's up to you to figure out how he'd react because those can be really offensive requests. (This is aside from the point since your relationship needs more work than just better sex.)

  • [-]
  • YellowGarden
  • 1 Points
  • 07:21:18, 8 July

He has other masculine features like height (a deal breaker for me), muscular build, broad shoulders, and this is going to sound stupid but he was always lifting heavy things when I met him and apparently I like that. I just remembered that because tonight he carried (with a hand truck and lift strap) a large household appliance from one neighbor's house to another up quite a lot of stairs and I was annoyed that I had already changed into my pajamas and didn't feel comfortable going out dressed like that to watch with the kids.

I don't know if I could ask for a sleeve or a toy or if I would like it. I was hoping to find some ideas to enjoy things more. According to statistics things are average, but I'd like a little je ne sais quoi.