A discussion on appearance and why it's fucking important (in response to recent posts). (self.TheRedPill)

TheRedPill

259 ups - 0 downs = 259 votes

I've noticed that since the surge of new members, there has been this slow push-back against the idea that physical appearance is important when it comes to what women value.

Whether in threads or in posts, some members have been trying to argue that women don't value this, or at least not as much as status, wealth, charm, etc.

To me, it sounds like a watered down RP-version of "Looks don't matter, just be yourself!!!"

I'm not the most knowledgeable RPer but, in my reading the idea is that women want both but for different reasons. If hooking up is your game, you need a decent body in order to maximize success. If you want long-term it helps to have your shit together and be better than her most respects (money, occupation, admiration, etc).

Months ago, a constant theme of TRP was self-improvement through bodybuilding and sport. "Hit the gym" was the mantra of this subreddit but now, it seems to have been downplayed.

I've been working out since August of last year and it's been rewarding on so many levels; more energy, more confidence, more female attention, less bitchy behavior, more respect from my friends and even total strangers, not to mention the perks that follow all those things. I've had more sex in the past two months than I have in the previous four years. Sure, I dabbled in game but the tipping point didn't arrive until I got my fat ass in the gym.

To me, it's just insane that the prospect of building a better "you" is being downplayed or de-emphasized, especially when it has more intrinsic benefits than reading every thread, manual, and post on game.

Is all of this "looks aren't that important" talk just hamstering away the prospect of having to work, sweat, and ache for results or am I just fucking clueless here?

244 comments submitted at 04:52:25 on Feb 4, 2014 by InsanityManifest

  • [-]
  • a_nus
  • 89 Points
  • 08:35:46, 4 February

For the ones on the heavy side, remember, the six pack is made in the kitchen. Just want to emphasize that since I see the word gym being thrown around so much in this subreddit but not too much about dieting.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 63 Points
  • 14:26:05, 4 February

And remember, there's no point in having a six-pack unless you have an ice-chest to put it in.

A skinny guy with a six-pack is like a fat chick with big tits.

  • [-]
  • mickemowse
  • 3 Points
  • 19:35:01, 4 February

Not really. There are many a skinny guy who dont have visible six packs. Its body fat %. They call that "skinny-fat", when your frame is essentially thin but your body fat% is high enough that you've very got little definition. I see that more often than the skinny guy with the definition. especially these American Apparel wearing retards. Thin frame, but they got love handles.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 2 Points
  • 21:34:18, 4 February

Well yes, and that's the worst of both worlds.

  • [-]
  • mickemowse
  • 0 Points
  • 22:42:04, 5 February

Personally I prefer being a thin guy. Less need to clothes shop, when I do buy new clothes, I fit them really easily and plus all my heroes are thin dudes too, Bruce Lee, Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, Prince... All of them have a similar body frame to mine. Thin and toned.

  • [-]
  • HitlersCow
  • 3 Points
  • 02:38:03, 5 February

I agree. Mostly.

I disagree not with the premise...but the (common) comparison that is just awful.

Being skinny at least means you have the self control to not gorge at every opportunity.

  • [-]
  • youngbulker
  • 4 Points
  • 17:36:39, 4 February

just dont forget that those 5'8" 220 lb people are not natural if theyre under 12%bf.

  • [-]
  • kol15
  • 7 Points
  • 19:06:05, 4 February

not that theres anything wrong with anabolics if you're smart about it

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 19:32:58, 4 February

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • Epicureanist
  • 0 Points
  • 23:02:00, 4 February

>but I actually know many people personally who are 5'8'' - 5'11'' and between 210-230 on powerlifting teams w/low body fat that are natural

How do you know that they're natural? I'll save us both time you don't. All we can do is take your word for it; your word of course resting upon their word. And us readers having no way of knowing what type of people you or your gym mates are.

10% body fat is a 4pack, not that far away from a full on 6 pack. 5'8, 210lbs, and 10% body fat reeks of the juice. Either you're overestimating their bodyfat, they're on the juice, or you know a group of genetic elites.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 03:37:05, 5 February

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 09:17:04, 5 February

It's up to you, but I wouldn't give up goals like that just to improve my appearance. It'll be a disadvantage for you, so you'll have to put more work into other areas to get to that same level of attractiveness.

  • [-]
  • TfahsNoriEht
  • 7 Points
  • 15:53:31, 4 February

Side note, your abs are muscles an need to be stimulated as such. Sit-ups and crunches don't do shit. You need weight resistance. Use a pull down cable machine and do your crunches against some heavy ass weight peanut.

  • [-]
  • drallcom3
  • 6 Points
  • 16:46:19, 4 February

Sit-ups and crunches are bad for your back. Do leg raises and planks. Even deadlifts will exercise your abs very well.

  • [-]
  • abutterfly
  • 10 Points
  • 18:18:23, 4 February

DO FUCKING SQUATS ^and ^^deadlifts

  • [-]
  • mickemowse
  • 3 Points
  • 19:41:58, 4 February

you also need a diet in order too and be creating a deficit in calories you eat vs. how many you're burning. You can firm your abs all you want, but unless you get your body fat % down far enough, you ain't gonna see that hard work for shit. You need to have a varied workout schedule too. Too many people just going in the gym and blindly doing however many reps of whatever then going home and eating a plate of ribs and drinking beer and wonder why they aren't getting a six pack.

Six packs aren't something you "get". Revealed is the better word to use. Get rid of body fat and you'll begin to see abs.

  • [-]
  • TfahsNoriEht
  • 1 Points
  • 19:44:33, 4 February

You can eat ribs IIFYM.

  • [-]
  • mickemowse
  • 2 Points
  • 20:08:16, 4 February

Honestly, its not something I suggest. Ive yet to see a person who can pull that off on a regular basis and not ruin their results. Its a line of thinking that I feel is overall dangerous. Most people will take that info and be like, "YAY! Time to go to Five Guys!"

  • [-]
  • TfahsNoriEht
  • 2 Points
  • 20:15:27, 4 February

Most people cannot, which is why I don't advocate for it if you're a newbie. But there's a difference between eating Five Guys (carb packed buns, fries, everything soaked in peanut oil) and ribs (red meat full of saturated fat).

  • [-]
  • mickemowse
  • 3 Points
  • 20:34:06, 4 February

True and then you have to consider ones fitness goals. I'm never one to bulk up, I'd always been happy with my size, but I fell into what is referred to as skinny-fat. Thin frame, high body fat. Skinny dude with jiggle jiggle. I HATED that. So part of my issue was too much animal protein, excess simple carbs and added sugar. Fruit juices etc. I had to cut out all that. So now I'm mostly vegetarian with some vegan items like cheese/milk products included. The overall diet I'm on has had great influence on losing excess body fat and the relief of a nasty ulcer that I'd dealt with for 2 years almost. Quitting beer and smoking cigarettes are also two huge factors as well.

  • [-]
  • Flutterbree
  • 1 Points
  • 06:28:05, 5 February

Too much animal protein was not your issue, lol

  • [-]
  • mickemowse
  • 1 Points
  • 22:37:02, 5 February

well, seeing as the ulcer pain was severely dulled down almost immediately after my meat intake went out the door..I'd say it was certainly one of the issues.

  • [-]
  • realitycompl3x
  • 5 Points
  • 19:49:55, 4 February

Or just do dead lifts and stop being a little bitch.

  • [-]
  • TfahsNoriEht
  • 2 Points
  • 19:59:22, 4 February

Or do both and stop being a little bitch.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • -81 Points
  • 15:30:54, 4 February

Hamstering bullshit. Six packs are earned mainly through core and ab exercises, which require hardwork and dedication, and of course you can't eat like shit to ruin all the progress you made.

You wouldn't say that you can diet your way to a 15" bicep. Six packs are developed muscles not a sign of weight loss.

E: I'm certain that you butthurt, downvoting idiots have no clue about the difference between abdominal muscles that exist in human beings and then a defined six pack you get through ab/core exercises.

  • [-]
  • heist_of_saint_graft
  • 30 Points
  • 15:37:05, 4 February

True, but the six-pack isn't visible unless you can burn the belly fat to show it. That's the point he's making.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • -22 Points
  • 17:40:21, 4 February

Your six pack as everyone thinks is photo ready doesn't exist without abs and core exercises. The final step after developing the actual muscles is to lose weight to see them. But they are there as a result of sit ups and crunches, not happenstance from dropping bf%.

  • [-]
  • Jeffplz
  • 3 Points
  • 09:07:40, 5 February

You're absolutely correct. I don't know why anyone is downvoting you.

  • [-]
  • O3EAN
  • 1 Points
  • 09:11:09, 5 February

He came out too aggressive for someone to focus on what he was saying rather than the way he said it, so a persons first reaction would likely be to just down vote it

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • -1 Points
  • 15:20:09, 5 February

Waaaaah he wuz 2 aggressive... hmph :(

  • [-]
  • hawk8979
  • 18 Points
  • 16:01:50, 4 February

Nah. Its about your diet and body fat for the six pack. You can be non-muscular as fuck and still have a six pack since you are skinny.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • -24 Points
  • 17:37:49, 4 February

Does not one person here understand how muscles develop?

  • [-]
  • hawk8979
  • 11 Points
  • 17:47:33, 4 February

I work out very hard, regularly and I eat fairly well, but I don't have a six pack. Why? Because of diet. You can stuff your fingers into your ears all you want, but i suggest you do some research. You can have a ridiculously strong core, but no six pack. A six pack is about having little to no fat between your skin and your abs. Use your head.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 14 Points
  • 16:22:11, 4 February

This is how I know you don't work out. Work abs all you like, if your BF% is too high, no abs for you. Jesus this is basic fitness shit, who you tryn'a play?

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 20 Points
  • 15:39:51, 4 February

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • christiefrontdrive
  • 6 Points
  • 16:07:17, 4 February

Six packs are largely visible on most of us already, there's just some flub covering them. Therefore excercise and (mostly) dieting will reveal them. For the average man they become visible around roughly 12% body fat, regardless of how muscular you are.

  • [-]
  • kick6
  • 6 Points
  • 16:26:40, 4 February

Funny. I know several competitive bodybuilders who do ZERO core isolation exercses...

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 3 Points
  • 16:32:54, 4 February

Because they do other exercises which work out the core like squats and deadlifts

  • [-]
  • enticingasthatmaybe
  • 6 Points
  • 21:30:15, 4 February

My abs show as a runner... Running does increase your core strength, but other than insane weekly mileage I don't do any other lifting / strength work because I'm always too damn tired.

  • [-]
  • bigjeffrey
  • 105 Points
  • 05:23:34, 4 February

Any guy that doesn't take care of himself and try to look good is LAZY. No ifs, ands, or buts. Eat right, exercise, dress nice, and you'll feel confident about yourself and good. If you want a hot girl, you can't be mad at hot girls wanting hot guys. Both girls and guys that are low quality but think they deserve a high quality partner need to wake up and realize that you need to improve yourself in order to attract people of value.

  • [-]
  • PrinceBarrington
  • 23 Points
  • 13:15:10, 4 February

The irony is improving yourself is often born out of desperation to appeal to the other sex, however, it is a side effect of getting in shape which attracts them. You quickly realise that self improvement is important to you because of you. The confidence that comes after the fact is what attracts the opposite sex.

  • [-]
  • Stopher
  • 5 Points
  • 17:30:10, 4 February

It also helps not looking like a slob.

  • [-]
  • JB31885
  • 1 Points
  • 19:35:14, 4 February

Exactly, just because you can pull decent girls without being in good shape doesn't mean you shouldn't get healthy. Do it for yourselves and if by chance you can pull even hotter girls then so be it.

  • [-]
  • shadymilkman_
  • 1 Points
  • 20:22:54, 4 February

I can admit that I started working out over desperation to appeal to the opposite sex, like you said. I continued to lift for the next 5 years, and still do, because of all the awesome benefits that come with it.

I no longer lift solely because of sex appeal, but in addition to the health benefits and general mental and physical well being which blow everything else out of the water.

  • [-]
  • PrinceBarrington
  • 5 Points
  • 20:35:36, 4 February

I was reading up on steroids a while back. I read that muscles of the upper arm, shoulder, lats, traps and chest have more androgen receptors and are more responsive to testosterone. I then read another article which asked women what muscles they prefer in a man. Yep, pretty much the ones that are responsive to testosterone. I too started hitting these muscles and followed it up with full body routines solely to attract the fairer sex. I found that many girls say they're not into muscle men, but react well to muscles. I think women aren't as black and white as us guys, they being attracted to other qualities we gain from having this strength. High test boosts confidence, aggression, risk taking etc. Women who respond to this more than others, in my experience have been the dirtiest once you get them in the sack; biting, punching and scratching. All round animals!

  • [-]
  • public-masturbator
  • 3 Points
  • 22:48:50, 4 February

I've also read that a good shoulder to waist size ratio is what a lot of women are attracted to. This seems to indicate that having a muscular upper body and a low body fat percentage is the way to go!

  • [-]
  • RedSunBlue
  • 3 Points
  • 00:50:17, 5 February

Shocking right?

The masculinizing effects of male sex hormones are sexually attractive to feminized women.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 01:14:29, 5 February

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • 3200math
  • 1 Points
  • 02:16:16, 5 February

Why can't they just have personal preference? If a girl was a bodybuilder and a man said, "I think she's a little too muscular for my taste" you wouldn't jump on him, you'd chalk it up to taste.

  • [-]
  • drallcom3
  • 1 Points
  • 05:59:39, 6 February

You forgot the ones who are simply lying.

  • [-]
  • drrrrrr
  • 1 Points
  • 07:11:14, 5 February

And Test levels in men in the US have been dropping since the 50s, down to around 70% of where it should be according to some studies.

  • [-]
  • FartyJohnson
  • 7 Points
  • 13:21:58, 4 February

Preach! Some guys are able to get girls that are out of their league appearance-wise by having other things going for them, but why not focus on your physical appearance as much as you can too? Dressing nicely, eating good food, and exercising is just common sense

  • [-]
  • SomersetRaglan
  • 21 Points
  • 09:19:23, 4 February

This needed to be said.

I think its a carry over from the PU community that always boasts how their methods can get short ugly fat guys laid.

  • [-]
  • southernmost
  • 4 Points
  • 15:11:32, 4 February

We're a visual species. If you have two guys, similar looks, same game, one is fat, one is fit, who will get more poon?

  • [-]
  • Gfresh405
  • 1 Points
  • 17:27:52, 4 February

That's a stupid comparison. A real test would be a confident and charming ugly guy vs. a cowardly and boring good looking guy. Nine times out of ten I'd put my money on the confident and charming ugly guy.

  • [-]
  • SomersetRaglan
  • 1 Points
  • 17:39:04, 4 February

Right, which is what PU always emphasizes, how game trumps all other factors, even having a job or dressing nice.

However, the seductive part of this fact is that it appears to the uninitiated that getting jacked is a long term goal that will take loads of effort, while getting game is a quick process that comes from some quick reading.

In reality, the gym (in my opinion) is a better use of your time, since it builds the discipline, confidence, and often social contacts (MAKE FRIENDS AT THE GYM GUYS) that will help you with game.

  • [-]
  • mc0079
  • 2 Points
  • 20:34:21, 4 February

Because they want to sell product to ugly fat guys...much easier to sell a quick fix system then sell the idea of hard work

  • [-]
  • sadproz
  • 0 Points
  • 20:44:25, 4 February

If you lose 100lbs and build 20 lbs of muscle, you won't just automatically sleep with 100 girls/year. It takes hard work to change your behavior. Physical fitness can contribute but there's an overall change needed.

  • [-]
  • SomersetRaglan
  • 1 Points
  • 01:26:38, 5 February

> lose 100lbs and build 20 lbs of muscle

This changes the frame. If you look like a guy who doesnt get laid a lot, then girls will treat you like one, and it will be difficult for you to fight the frame other people have created for you.

If you've ever been the life pf a party, you know that feeling when things just click and its not just you pulling people into your reality, but them pulling you into yours. They think you're fucking amazing, and it makes you feel fucking amazing.

So when you look jacked, people treat you like a cool dude. Best compliment I've ever gotten from a girl is 'you seem like someome who has a lo of girlfriends.' Bam, once she thinks you're a player, you BECOME the player unless you screw it up.

  • [-]
  • sadproz
  • -1 Points
  • 02:14:17, 5 February

Exactly. Being the life of the party is the pinnacle display of value because you are the one dictating the reality. Of course, building your body helps you get there because it's hard to pull women if you don't feel confident receiving attention, and confident with your close.

We all know the story of the chubby guy who transformed at the gym and now gets more girls (what's more than zero?). But there will always be other guys that get more girls than him. "Why is that?" is the question.

But my overall point against this fitness first mentality is that it isn't TRP. Brad Pitt is Brad Pitt, not because he has a six pack (lots of guys in LA have those—they are a commodity in shallow land) but because of his behavior. "He just acts so cool, so hot." He has like this permanent smile he can't hide, like nothing can phase him in his deep core, like he's got this party in his head, always having fun. Even the male population holds him as king, and secretly or not so secretly want to be him after the movie Fight Club.

Obviously having a six pack aids your game, it's like having a shinier race car—it just looks like a winner. But there are some people with scrappy, recycled-parts-having cars that win races and sometimes the Grand Prix of women. Those guys have a lot to learn from.

Also, we all know girls who look hot and so stop self-development at age 12, and continue to act like that. Men can fall into that trap too. Don't just work on your abs, work on the whole thing. Become a king so you don't have to fake it and never have weak spots.

A guy with game farts in front of women for fun and still fucks them that night.

Don't get distracted by shiny objects.

  • [-]
  • SomersetRaglan
  • 1 Points
  • 06:31:34, 5 February

You speak the truth.

>because you are the one dictating the reality.

I disagree with this however. I maintain that it is the other people at the party dictating the reality, and your success is piggybacking on their delusion. If you walk into the room and people think 'wow there's a cool dude' then you become the cool dude.

Here's an example. In high school I took a spanish class with a professor who for whatever reason thought I was a star student. I did well, and we got along. The next semester, I had a bitch who got it into her head that I was a troublemaker and a slacker. Guess what, I became a slacker and a troublemaker.

Why do tall guys often grow up to be ceos? Because when people see them, they think wow what a confident guy, and bam it helps them be that way.

  • [-]
  • sadproz
  • 1 Points
  • 14:27:45, 5 February

Yeah I agree. Affecting reality is not a simple matter. There are multiple factors. Which again I think is why behavior is the pinnacle method of affecting reality.

For example: Daniel Craig is not a good looking guy. He's kind of ugly. But he exhibited amazing behavior in Layer Cake that could only be attributed to a smooth, smart, threatening character in control of his Dark Triad traits. The world fell in love with him and saw him as a James Bond potential. He ended up getting the job. Looks alone didn't make him James Bond. His Actors Headshot didn't get him the James Bond gig. It was him exhibiting behaviors that became him. Now everyone thinks he's good looking and is on the cover of GQ, but he didn't have that opportunity prior to exhibiting behaviors worthy of those attributes. That's what I mean by it's not actually about the looks. It's about the behaviors which naturally exude a look.

A lot of guys have it backwards. They try to look like a gangster but don't behave like one, so it comes off as lame. Women pick up on this. Us guys pick up on this.

Contrast that with acting like a gangster. All of a sudden you look like one. Because the mind consumes the behavior then interprets the look though that filter.

Brad Pitt wouldn't have gotten anywhere without his patented behavior. There are plenty of good looking guys not getting movie parts.

  • [-]
  • ferpo_the_great
  • 10 Points
  • 08:40:18, 4 February

It comes down to this: if you're good looking and stay in shape you start at an advantage. If you're out of shape and dress like shit you start at a disadvantage.

I wholeheartedly believe that you should workout for yourself and yourself only but your outer self reflects your inner self. If you look like a dweeb chances are you are one.

  • [-]
  • zheiroh
  • 23 Points
  • 10:48:03, 4 February

I agree. While there is wisdom in just being yourself, a man, redpill no less, should always strive to be a better version of himself. For sure, there will be times when people disagree on what is "better", but my general idea of improvement is:

  • Improving my body through training, nutrition and having perfect hygiene and so on;
  • Improving my mind through reading, watching videos and argumentating;
  • Always being in the process of acquiring at least one new skill or leaning a new trade;
  • Separating myself from the things that can be used by others to control me:

    a)I'm not really MGTOW, but I'm scheduled for a vasectomy at the beginning of April to make sure a kid can't be used against me in the future.

b)I also decided NOT to cohabitate, although sharing my bed with random girls for sex or doing activities together or having a girlfriend (minus the possible kids and cohabitation) is just fine by me.

c)I'm saving and investing about 40 to 60% of my income after tax so that I can retire early or at least quit on my terms so I won't be locked down into a job or an environment I don't like.

  • Now I'm about to start giving back to the community by doing my best to convince as many men as possible that there is great value and joy to be had in not marrying and not having kids. I lost so many male friends, coworkers and acquaintances because of suicide following divorces, especially when kids were involved and taken away from their dads. I owe it to my brothers to help any way I can.
  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 17:29:28, 4 February

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • zheiroh
  • 2 Points
  • 18:10:19, 4 February

No concerns about reversal. Life has taught me that family is not dependent on blood alone. Even if it could be reversed, why would I do that? I don't expect laws to change and become fair to men in the near future and there is always a huge possibility the mother of my kid would leave me, take my kid away from me and ruin the fruits of my labor. Why work so hard for something that can be taken away so easily and kill my heart? Today, I can say my life makes me happy. I feel great and I live with no worries. I have enough money stashed/invested right now I could stop working today and live for 5 years without worry. I don't want to risk all that. Some of my friends killed themselves after a divorce and not seeing their kids anymore. They were the happiest bunch BEFORE they got married, NOT after having kids. Of course they loved their children, but clearly the pain of having them taken away by their ex was too much.

If (and that's a big if) I ever meet "the one", she must want to be content with no children at all, or adoption if I change my mind. I'll make sure she bears her share of the costs involved and if she can't then no kid.

Alternatively, I'm working for an early retirement (40ish) and I'll adopt a kid by myself if I really want one.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 7 Points
  • 12:21:57, 4 February

Appearance is tremendously important.

When I wasn't good looking, I would still pull girls - I'd just have to rely on a social circle and a lot of teasing/takeaways/traditional "game".

Now that I have better posture, dress better, have a dope haircut, all I have to do is identify girls who are already into me from the beginning (standing slightly too close, looking a split second too long), say hi, and not fuck up.

It's a piece of cake.

The good thing is that my years of not being good looking has given me rock solid game, so once someone finds me good looking, escalating is effortless.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 17:21:48, 4 February

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 3 Points
  • 17:31:18, 4 February

bowl cut

  • [-]
  • sron123
  • 16 Points
  • 07:47:07, 4 February

Remember the more attractive you are the more you can get away with, I can actively say all sorts of crazy shit and no one bats an eye. I don't filter myself much infront of girls anymore. I always valued brutal honesty and now I just say what I want and they still fuck me. I wouldnt believe for a second I'd be able to get away with half of what I say if I weren't good looking.

  • [-]
  • The_CEO_of_Beta
  • 7 Points
  • 09:08:35, 4 February

This is the critical thing about looks.

When I was out of shape as fuck, if I so much as looked at a girl or said anything they would go eeeww creepy.
Now that I'm much better looking I can and have gotten away with saying some pretty messed up things and they don't feel creeped out, they laugh with me.

It's like if comic book guy says to a girl, "I wanna nomnom your boobies." He sounds desperate. If Fabio says the same thing he'll be seen as being cute and funny.

There are buff Adonises out there that are still awkward and unsuccessful with girls, but the ones who are successful surely use this extra edge to maximize their game.

  • [-]
  • Kepaso
  • 3 Points
  • 16:05:44, 4 February

they made a guide for this : http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f76_1323277426

  • [-]
  • drallcom3
  • 1 Points
  • 16:50:38, 4 February

And this is why attractive men tell you about "awesome openers that work every time". For them it doesn't matter what they say. They just have to say something.

  • [-]
  • SnowCrabThunderDick
  • 0 Points
  • 16:50:48, 4 February

I've made a game out of it. I basically try to say or do the most fucked up or weird shit I can think of and see where it takes me. Just three days ago I got a cute barista's number immediately after telling her I'd like to watch her eat grapes out of my hand. I plan on fucking her tonight. I also like to wipe boogers on girls when we hang out for the first time, they act all grossed out but 90% of times I've done it I've still gotten laid. Two years ago when I was 6'2" and 150lbs I wouldn't have been able to pull this shit off. Now that I'm 195 and lean its literally too easy. Yeah the weight gain has increased my confidence ten fold, but the way I look now plays a big part in how easy it is to get laid.

  • [-]
  • jetlife_
  • 1 Points
  • 02:09:43, 5 February

6'2...195....oh.

  • [-]
  • SnowCrabThunderDick
  • 1 Points
  • 04:16:26, 5 February

What?

  • [-]
  • hearingaid_bot
  • 1 Points
  • 04:17:15, 5 February

6'2...195....OH.

  • [-]
  • SnowCrabThunderDick
  • 1 Points
  • 04:20:51, 5 February

Lol

  • [-]
  • Tunk
  • 5 Points
  • 10:01:19, 4 February

The shortest way to put it is that appearance is the difference between 'creepy', average and 'prince charming' during a first impression.
Its the difference between the brain saying nope nope nope, boring/average and shit damn he looks interesting I want to interact with this fellow who gives a fuck if he is covered in his mothers blood?

People love attractive people, it is as simple as that.

  • [-]
  • hiyuh
  • 12 Points
  • 05:50:03, 4 February

Agreed. While the whole "I don't think I look good enough, please tell me that looks don't matter whatsoever" thing was a problem for me when I first started (I had confidence and body issues before TRP, imagine that) , I came up with a method to get rid of that shitty way of thinking. I don't see it as, "Looks don't matter at all", I see it as, "Looks don't matter as much as you think.....but you're still going take care of yourself, dress well, eat right, and work out as much as possible".

I frame it like that for myself for two reasons:

  1. Whenever I get rejected, it prevents me from thinking, "Wow, it must be my looks, I should just stop trying". It forces me to own up to the mistakes I made and strive to improve for the future, instead of just feeling shitty and helpless.

  2. In general, you can't drastically change your innate looks. Obviously you can lose weight, eat right, dress amazingly, etc, but you will still look like you for the most part. Therefore, it makes no sense to beat yourself up about it and let it wreck your frame.

So with this mindset, I'm not intimidated by the better looking guy chatting up those girls, because hey, looks don't matter as much as I think. Instead of making excuses in my head, now I have no reason to not go over and at least give it my best shot. This may not work for everyone, but it has definitely helped me get past that crushing feeling of "I don't have good enough looks, why bother improving at all?"

tldr; Your innate looks matter, but not enough to use as an excuse as to why you keep failing. There is absolutely no excuse to not improve yourself in whatever ways possible. Focus on what you CAN change (Food, exercise, clothing, social skills, status, etc), and stop letting things you can't change fuck with your frame.

  • [-]
  • InsanityManifest
  • 6 Points
  • 06:20:03, 4 February

>tldr; Your innate looks matter, but not enough to use as an excuse as to why you keep failing.

I don't mean innate appearance, I'm talking about pumping iron, running and getting into physical activity. That's what I mean by looks. Innate handsomeness isn't the issue here, it's a de-emphasis on pushing yourself to look better in favor of analyzing the shit out of game and then arguing that looks don't matter.

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 0 Points
  • 12:09:24, 4 February

> Innate handsomeness isn't the issue here

Why isn't it the issue here? I'd say it makes a damn sight more difference that pumping iron.

  • [-]
  • dirtboxchampion
  • 1 Points
  • 13:38:25, 4 February

I think dudes are the same as girls here: putting in, or not putting in, effort can give you +/- 2 points.

If you're naturally an eight, and put in some effort, you're a 10 (purely looks wise, women of course care about status, success etc).

If you're naturally a six, and put in some effort, you're an eight and you're now doing as well as the natural eight who's too lazy. Go take his girl.

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 1 Points
  • 14:51:20, 4 February

I think 1 point is more realistic than 2, but I take your "point".

That 1 point might make a lot of difference if you're starting as a 7-8, but much less (I would suggest) if you're starting as a 4-5.

Why not sink 10-20 grand (if you've got it) on plastic surgery instead? That could be worth 3 points.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 15:09:25, 4 February

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 2 Points
  • 15:30:22, 4 February

>I'm busting down to 10% from 17%

Some percents are harder to lose than others. The percents between 0% and 15% are extremely hard to lose.

>and trying to pack on about 25 pounds

I don't know how much you weigh, so it's hard to say much about that except that I've never really known anyone who has cut bodyfat to that degree (10%) without calorific restriction or a lot of cardio. It seems hard to imagine "packing on" weight in those circumstances.

>My fucked up facial feature is obviously standing in my way it would be retarded not to do something about it. I think I can max out as a high 7 @ 5'11 height. From there my game/intellect/cash flow can carry me wherever I need to be.

I've never seen you obviously, but I think that if you think there is a problem then there probably is a problem, and it can almost certainly be fixed.

> But yes denying appearance, much less facial configuration, is stupid.

And yet so common.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 2 Points
  • 15:42:49, 4 February

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 2 Points
  • 15:53:25, 4 February

> No I'm taking care of the weight first using keto and mild restriction then I was going to bulk upwards.

I cut drastically, mainly by fasting, and then bulked up. That worked.

>But people denying that aesthetic component is just fucking insulting to someone with genetic setbacks, not to mention had discouraged me from getting it taken care of.

It's an excellent example of the harms committed by all the do-gooders in the name of an illusory, politically correct utopia.

  • [-]
  • dirtboxchampion
  • 1 Points
  • 20:13:12, 4 February

20 grand, with somewhat unknown long term effects, is a much higher price to pay than three hours of your time to lift each week and the body, endorphins, sense of discipline and stress relief you get with that.

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 1 Points
  • 02:24:56, 5 February

Is it? At $30/hour (in which you could be earning money) that's $90/week or ~$4000 a year, plus the ~$500-plus in gym membership fees. You'd break even in 4 years or so.

BTW, the "unknown long terms effects" have been well studied.

  • [-]
  • dirtboxchampion
  • 1 Points
  • 08:08:20, 5 February

Personally I couldn't be earning money in that time. By the time I'm lifting, my mental capacity to solve any more Rubik's cubes has dwindled.

Nobody had calf implants twenty years ago, or pec implants, or whatever. I've seen at least one pair of pec implants that already looks like shit.

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 1 Points
  • 10:01:22, 5 February

>Nobody had calf implants twenty years ago, or pec implants, or whatever.

This may well be true, but it doesn't hold for most other forms of plastic surgery (particularly facial plastic surgery, which was what I most had in mind - all the workouts in the world won't make an ugly face pretty) that aren't subject to animation deformity.

  • [-]
  • Ironhigh
  • 5 Points
  • 12:06:04, 4 February

I've noticed that as well, I saw two different threads claiming that women only care about actions yesterday,yeah sure, domination is one of the biggest turn-ons for women in general, but saying that they only care about actions is just retarded.It's like a purple pill or something.

If you are really good looking you can just ask for sex whenever you want.

I hope that this subreddit doesn't die by the shitty community growth.

  • [-]
  • drqxx
  • 6 Points
  • 13:31:59, 4 February

WHEN I WAS FAT I could land solid 3's and 4's. When I got fit and learned to dress I could land 9's. Be serious about being the best you; that you can be. Stop Lying to yourself.

  • [-]
  • kick6
  • 4 Points
  • 16:25:09, 4 February

The problem with telling people attempting to stomach the red pill to get their fat ass to the gym is this:

It allows guys to create a buffer. Erog "once I'm in shape, THEN I'll start making approaches." This allows them to postpone approaching indefinetly. By downplaying the importance of it, you're sort of putting blinders on to a part of reality in the hopes that someone will bite off the rest of it instead of using it as an excuse to do nothing at all.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 3 Points
  • 13:41:25, 4 February

Interesting how you guys tend to think appearance is 99% muscles and leanness.

When I was young like 15 years ago it was like 70% stuff like designer clothes, spiky hair gel, sun bed tanning, and so on, so it was about being a "fashionable" guy if you were a bit fat or scrawny nobody really cared.

It was in Eastern Europe so it may be different for you. We were a bit like Jersey Shore just with a better taste, I guess. (Shorter hair spikes :-DD)

Having said that I am not sure the fashionable guys real scored many goals or they just got to hang out with the hot chicks. I sometimes saw a hot chick have a dozen fashionable orbiters but the guy she actually fucked was the type who does not care much about fashion just wears timeless manly stuff like simple Clooney type haircuts, polo shirts and dress jeans.

  • [-]
  • sadproz
  • 6 Points
  • 15:15:43, 4 February

Nope.

It's not as black and white because the brain isn't as black and white. The red pill should be committed to accuracy, not simplicity per se. It's so simple to say, "look better and you'll get the girl." But that is not the complete truth, as I know it so far. This is what I know:

Women look for behavior that exhibits the man is of value. Patrice O'Neal was not a model in the physical sense , but was in the behavioral sense. He pulled girls because he owned every room he entered, good looking and rich men be damned.

Our cortex rationalizes what other parts feel. If a man behaves hot, she will rationalize that he is hot. That's why women say, "he acts so cool." Men are not like this. We don't look for women who behave cool or behave hot so much as are hot visually and physically. From there we care about behavior. Women are reverse, they see behavior, they categorize you as lover, provider, or chode based on behavior, THEN they rationalize the rest of reality according to how they tagged you.

If a non-six pack guy out-behaves you she will cheat on you despite your six pack.

The best outcome is looks + behavior, so I don't disagree with your message of "work out my fellow men" but let's not be blinded by the way the world works, hence this sub.

The real selfish reason all men should work out is because our male brain values physical fitness and ability to punish or defend from others physically, and so that self-valuation results in self-esteem and comfort out in the world, which results in the king like behavior that attracts women.

If you are an MMA fighter, financially wealthy, and a skilled author-philosopher then you feel pretty damn good about yourself when out in the world and she is picking up on your value. She doesn't actually care about your interests, just in what your interests mean to her.

So the lesson: be great, for you will walk upon the world like a great man, and people will be attracted to this.

Working out is an avenue to this so called greatness but know that the best looking man at a party isn't always the life of the party. The life of the party always pulls the highest physically-valued woman because he is king.

Don't get me wrong: this is hard for me to hear as I am usually the introvert of the party, but thinking back, my successful moments are always when I'm care free improving the energy of the people around me. My looks only served to support my self-esteem.

Edit: also, this post seems to be your motive to shame people into not prioritizing working out as much as you personally do. That's fucked up. I'm all for proper health for self. But in the interest of getting girls, know that many true players that are on a matrix-like level don't work out at all and look average. Those are the guys we will learn from the most. I'd rather learn basketball from the normal height guy in the NBA who overcame disadvantage (read: hacking reality) than the 8 footer who is a one trick-pony. The hacker has teachable material. The 8 footer can't teach height.

But if your message is, being an 8 footer with basketball skills is the ultimate player, then no one will argue. That man will be a beast.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 8 Points
  • 07:22:21, 4 February

> Is all of this "looks aren't that important" talk just hamstering away the prospect of having to work, sweat, and ache for results or am I just fucking clueless here?

No you're not clueless, but there are a lot of fucking idiots that don't realize how deep the rabbit hole goes, and they will always pipe up with #looksdontmatter BS.

  • [-]
  • RedSunBlue
  • 5 Points
  • 11:08:35, 4 February

People tend to forget that we are a wee bit of human on top of a whole lot of monkey.

  • [-]
  • YouDislikeMyOpinion
  • 7 Points
  • 07:40:09, 4 February

This is what happens when PUAs start to sell that shit of:

Looks matter up to a point, then it's game. I'm looking at you RSD.

Like you said in your other post, you breach the upper point where one random girl finds you extremely attractive, and every girl is going to do the same thing because they all use the same criteria.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 13 Points
  • 07:51:10, 4 February

> Looks matter up to a point, then it's game. I'm looking at you RSD.

Yeah, I always think of this in the reverse as well. Most rejection (like prolly close to 99%) is non-negotiable, you arent the right height, right look, right color, right hairstyle, she just plain isnt interested, etc. The remaining 1% can be minimized with game, but the MOST valuable stuff youll learn from game is simple shit like: logistics (don't take her on a date 45mins away from ur place...), kino (learn to get her horny, basically just a euphamism for foreplay with a tad bit of dominance thrown int). But game game, like negs / openers / the cube / and other bs are really just conversation fillers for social retards. Great to have in your arsenal if you get nervous, but completely unneccessary.

But that just leaves us with the other 99% of rejections: you didn't make her fucking vagina tingle, and most of those tingles are coming from health / energy / confidence / physical stature / etc. Which are all direct by products of athetics.

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 3 Points
  • 12:12:26, 4 February

> Which are all direct by products of athetics.

Aesthetics? Athletics?

  • [-]
  • YouDislikeMyOpinion
  • 1 Points
  • 07:58:25, 4 February

What you say is pure truth. Every guy I know that has his number up in the mid tripple digit area mirrors what you say to the letter.

  • [-]
  • pontifx
  • 3 Points
  • 10:37:13, 4 February

I just want to add on that 99% of rejections have to do with being out of place. Everyone has a timer they are on for certain characters to play a part and if you can't see that shit then you are gonna be making all kinds of lousy bets. Appearance just changes what roles you can play, so your timer goes down by virtue of that. Almost everyone has a bit part for hot as fuck confident dude. Some people might have major roles for troubled intellectual, but that director might be a frumpy dressed feminist clasping a stainless steel cock cage. You have to assess want you want to have a part in and work towards that. There are some places where the gym doesn't play any role. There are almost no places where being a fatass plays a role.

  • [-]
  • YouDislikeMyOpinion
  • 1 Points
  • 16:45:03, 4 February

I like the way you describe it. This is why I can't properly answer any dating quiz. They ask questions like "what do you like more?", and my answer is always "it depends". I don't mold myself to be something that is easy for people to understand, or mold myself to be a specific type of person. Those quizzes try to squeeze you into a cookie cutter male.

You have to be able to play different roles. It really expands horizons, and it's also very fun.

I hope some people will read and reread your post to get it, because what you just said is critical. I've actually never written what you said down, but I have it internalized. Now that I know the words to use to explain it, I will from now on.

Actually, if you could elaborate on the "timer", that would be great.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 3 Points
  • 12:27:08, 4 February

Yep, all the guys I know who get laid a lot are very, very good looking.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 05:02:43, 5 February

I know a lot of guys in the average and even sub average realm of looks that do well with women. Well enough to have peace of mind that there will be another lay.

But the guys I know who are the absolute best, are all extremely good looking. The thing people don't realize is, a mediocre guy can go from a 4 to a 9 easily with fitness, I know this because I've done it myself as well. I show girls old pictures of me and they can't even find me in the pictures because the transformation is so stark.

  • [-]
  • IDefyAxioms
  • 2 Points
  • 02:10:03, 5 February

It's part of that "Feel Good Bullshit" line of thought. It's funny, because FGBS doesn't make any sense when you objectively view sexual attraction. Why be with a fat slob who isn't physically capable? It isn't evolutionarily viable.

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 2 Points
  • 12:20:55, 4 February

It's LMS - looks, money, status.

  • [-]
  • ogeezyv
  • 2 Points
  • 14:32:40, 4 February

There is an immediate physical attraction to guys that are physically in shape and it makes your game a lot easier. Simple as that.

  • [-]
  • vengefully_yours
  • 2 Points
  • 16:22:00, 4 February

Yes appearance matters, but waiting until you have the muscle or lost the weight is limiting yourself. Appearance improvements increase your ability to attract people and get them to like you, it also increases the appearance value of the women who will be willing to give you a chance and actually talk to you. Appearance is the first thing people notice about others, it does matter.

The biggest thing though, is how looking good makes you feel good and that increases your self confidence and self esteem. That changes your behavior and on its own can make you more attractive.

Don't wait until its perfect, start approaching now while you work on everything else. Keep improving every aspect of your life, not because it will get you laid, but because it will make your life worth living.

  • [-]
  • arnold1251
  • 2 Points
  • 19:45:50, 4 February

Lift weights and spin plates.

  • [-]
  • AdmiralVonJackass
  • 2 Points
  • 03:09:25, 5 February

Say you have a stool, and you want someone to sit on it. If a leg is missing, no one is going to sit on your janky ass stool. Sex with you is choosing to take a seat, your qualities are the legs. You better have three solid legs for her to sit on, or you ain't getting shit.

Fitness is one of the most common ways of making a quality stool. It is a tried and true method that has worked since mammals morphed into fuck machines.

You can try and build some niche product that is so unique and trendy that bitches will just have to have it. Fuck that. If you want to spend every moment of your waking life crafting an elaborate woman trap, be my guest. The way I see it, this will fucking do.

Sex is a binary decision it is either yes or no. Too many dumb fuck fedora tippers are coming to the game with shit like this and wondering why they are getting blown out.

Bad news faggots. You can do all the hamstering that you want about your shitty physical appearance and think that your magical inner game will make everything okay, but it wont. Sure you may lure some ham beasts to your filthy floor matress for a game of pump the clammy starfish, but you success rate with worthwhile women is going to be dogshit.

  • [-]
  • Mrswhiskers
  • 1 Points
  • 05:50:19, 4 February

While looks are important your personality changes your appearance over time. There was a study I read about that said that you only truly see what a person looks like in the first 5 min of meeting them. After that outside factors, like personality, job, charisma, etc, weigh in on your attractiveness. I have met people who at first I think are stunningly attractive but then once I got to know them their number dropped significantly. And also the other way around. Personality can only go so far but it DOES make a difference. Especially to woman.

  • [-]
  • InsanityManifest
  • 2 Points
  • 06:44:09, 4 February

I see where you're coming from but that's theory.

In real life, women don't judge their partners with the same criteria men do. Yes, they can somewhat overlap (attractiveness), be opposed (submissiveness vs dominance), or whatever but once you get out there, it's not that simple.

Once a woman writes you off, most of the other women that see it will write you off, depending on the attractiveness of the female who rejected you. The hotter the female, the lower your chances become with every other female who saw your rejection. This is why men have a natural fear of rejection.

Having a strong and well-built body helps to diffuse this, as women naturally treat men who look stronger than other men with more respect and playfulness.

>Personality can only go so far but it DOES make a difference. Especially to woman.

Of course it does but it's not equal to having a good body. It's secondary if all you want is sex.

  • [-]
  • Mrswhiskers
  • 1 Points
  • 14:18:08, 4 February

>Once a woman writes you off, most of the other women that see it will write you off, depending on the attractiveness of the female who rejected you. The hotter the female, the lower your chances become with every other female who saw your rejection. This is why men have a natural fear of rejection.

Yes but this is exactly why people with a 5 and below have developed a good personality. They don't often go after the 10. You go after someone close to your own number. Then as the night progresses your own number tends to go up with this person you're chasing due to your personality.

  • [-]
  • jmal2000
  • 0 Points
  • 08:48:20, 4 February

Dunno, I pride myself on getting girls by personality and I'm able to get fat and still attract women. Knowing how to word in the right way, goes a long way.

  • [-]
  • RedSunBlue
  • 1 Points
  • 07:09:46, 4 February

> you only truly see what a person looks like in the first 5 min of meeting them.

What the fuck does that mean?

  • [-]
  • Cyralea
  • 1 Points
  • 14:11:42, 4 February

It sounds like a load of feelz bullshit, but there's truth to it. Your brain re-wires itself to perceive attractiveness differently the longer you've been around someone. You've never heard of girls saying that their partners became more physically attractive to them the longer they've been in a relationship?

Alternatively, Stockholm syndrome.

  • [-]
  • Dick_Rockhard
  • 1 Points
  • 11:28:46, 4 February

This is the fucking truth right here. I'm leaving the house at 6:30am to get in two hours of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu before I need to be in my office because I have a dinner with clients scheduled tonight and God help me if a miss even one training session in a month. Get your lazy fucking asses to the damn gym!

  • [-]
  • Herb-Eversmells
  • 1 Points
  • 12:30:05, 4 February

Were you actually fat? The reason I ask is, as a skinny guy im wondering if all the positive feedback was because of weight loss or actually getting ripped.

  • [-]
  • Hodysseus
  • 1 Points
  • 13:18:04, 4 February

Excellent. Totally agree. I have just started in the gym. And have passed the initial phase and starting to actually progress. My girlfriend started rubbing my "firmer" pecks. Previously said nothing about my "boobies"??? I reflected recently that - how could I not have been doing this all along. You need to be in shape. The shape of a man. However, my knee is screwed - so I will have to wait a bit...

For many years I was a competitive triathlete. Many hours of training per day. But, the body type is very skinny - as in elite long distance runner skinny. I was fittest I had ever been. But chicks didn't dig it- said I looked emaciated.

I reckon I could be well toned from gym in 10% of the weekly training time as triathlon...

  • [-]
  • Kepaso
  • 1 Points
  • 16:14:07, 4 February

now get some good clothes and a nice haircut and you're in business

  • [-]
  • Hodysseus
  • 1 Points
  • 16:21:54, 4 February

I'm not totally convinced of the cloths.

Hair? yes - if you've got it flaunt it.

Cloths? Perhaps in context. i.e Brooks brothers suit to a grunge concert? no..

I have worked Wall st and warn the suits. I've also owned bars. Wealthy Wall st trust fund baby with no "stuff" - gets zero chicks over the "cool" bartenders in ripped jeans and dirty t-shirts (edit: and good hair)...

  • [-]
  • Kepaso
  • 1 Points
  • 18:51:35, 4 February

yeah i wasnt talking about suits but regular cool clothes that fit. If your jeans is fitting you, chicks will note, and anyway it will be better than 80% of men who have oversized beige cargo shorts. Gotta find your style, really, if it's grunge, well do it right. Girls

  • [-]
  • Hodysseus
  • 1 Points
  • 12:06:29, 5 February

totally agree. i like the feel of a great suit. Really makes you fell "powerful". These days I usually wear jeans and boots, and long sleeved quality shirt. not tucked in. Boots are key. Or any decent shoes...

last time went out most regular guys were wearing "oversized beige cargo shorts"... not a good look... And many have the polo shirt tucked tightly into their shorts, highlighting the big ol' belly...

  • [-]
  • whowemaybe
  • 1 Points
  • 13:40:00, 4 February

A good quote I heard one of the chaps say was: "Looks aren't important. Appearances are"

  • [-]
  • ThumpNuts
  • 1 Points
  • 14:09:29, 4 February

I think you hit the nail on the head in your 4th sentence. It really is about the goals and type of relationship you are looking for.

If you want to get laid and are only looking for short term prospects: The quality of your hookups will be greatly influenced by how attractive you are.

If you want to get laid and are looking for long term prospects [harem]: The quality of your hookups will be greatly influenced by how good a provider [wealth/power] you are.

Since a lot of RP's are really not into providing anything besides the 'D'... your best bet is to take care of yourself physically, present a fit and healthy appearance, and reap ALL the benefits that come from a healthy lifestyle.

  • [-]
  • No_disintegrations
  • 1 Points
  • 15:06:57, 4 February

In the words of the inimitable Dom Mazetti, "Your resolution is my life."

Fitness is a lifestyle. You learn discipline, stop looking like shit, and have better mental health as a result. Trust me, if you think looks don't matter to women you've never seen one gasp when they grab your bicep or grab your ass.

  • [-]
  • clevernamesgetchicks
  • 1 Points
  • 15:09:38, 4 February

Habit ultimately shapes how you look. These habits are subsequently based on your mindset, attitude etc. Therefore, appearance to some extent would be reflective of how your atitude or personality is. Im oversimplifying it but thats the basic logic behind it

  • [-]
  • Kepaso
  • 1 Points
  • 15:58:29, 4 February

this and a nice haircut if you re not balding. When was the last time a girl complimented you on your hair? Oh, and a nice pair of fitted jeans. It must be a perfect fit. Fuck this baggy, saggy jeans.

  • [-]
  • wonsnot
  • 1 Points
  • 15:59:10, 4 February

Not to say that appearance doesn't matter but there have been several psychological studies that indicate that greater real or imagined wealth is much more a determining factor than physical appearance. So if you aren't wealthy... Hit the gym.

  • [-]
  • rulezero
  • 1 Points
  • 17:15:24, 4 February

Working out allows you to get in contact with your physicality, and this is essential to becoming a self-actualized man.

  • [-]
  • SmellyJelly22
  • 1 Points
  • 17:34:55, 4 February

Attracting women requires 2 things:

1) Being a high value individual (be good looking, well dressed, have a good job, make money, have an interesting life, etc...)

AND

2) Act in the correct way (most of what you learn on TRP).

One of the problems with the PUA/seduction community (and to a lesser extent, TRP), is that guys want to act like everything hinges on #2 and that #1 is not important at all. It's just not true. You can be the most stone cold player in the world but at the end of the day not a lot of women will want to date a balding fat guy who lives in their mother's basement. Period. It makes sense that PUA/TRP types would downplay #1 - it's hard to change your #1 overnight (so obsessing over it is meaningless) and too many guys use any deficiencies in their #1 as an excuse for losing confidence with respect to #2. But still, you need both.

That said, there is the rare case of a guy who pulls it off with just #1 and the even more rare case of the guy who pulls it off with just #2. That said, to expect consistent, long-term success, you need both.

Also, a lot of the reason for the overemphasis no #2 is that a lot of pick-up "gurus" are trying to make a quick buck off of ugly, socially awkward losers who just want to find a "magic bullet" that will help them get girls.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 17:59:14, 4 February

if you have 10 million they don't give a fuck lol

  • [-]
  • Rollo-Tomassi
  • 1 Points
  • 18:51:01, 4 February

I see we need a refresher: http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/23/looks-count/ http://therationalmale.com/2012/04/13/have-a-look/

  • [-]
  • MockingDead
  • 1 Points
  • 18:56:04, 4 February

Looks matter. How much they matter is up to a small debate.

Hitting the gym does 3 things. It increases your physical appearance, gives you a goal and makes you feel accomplished for more confidence, and raises testosterone/releases endorphins for same.

Hit the gym.

Of note: Fitness matters more than confidence, confidence more than looks. But they are all related, hard to have one and not the others.

  • [-]
  • IIHotelYorba
  • 1 Points
  • 19:02:54, 4 February

Looks matter, but they're not an excuse.

If you have looks or a good physique don't let anyone try to take that away from you. Looks matter. They're one form of value. The pproblem is, many guys use not having looks as an excuse to not go out, to not make the effort to talk to girls.

Everyone should go to the gym. That said, if you are trying to get laid your priorities should be

1, talking to girls

2, going to the gym and other self improvement

Nothing will get you good at pulling girls faster than interacting with them. Period.

  • [-]
  • szip88
  • 1 Points
  • 20:02:17, 4 February

I come from a average working class family, grew up pretty simple and I couldn't ask for more. I was taught from an early age that if I want something I will have to work for it, and it paid off.

Nothing helped me more in life than working out, helped me get out of depression build confidence and I constantly catch people look at me. I used to think I need lots of money, fancy car and overpriced clothes to attract girls. Stupid boy i was....wow. Now I see them want me for being me! Keep your 2k facebook friends, and your fancy lifestyle I'm good.

  • [-]
  • TooMuchToDoo
  • 1 Points
  • 22:07:46, 4 February

Got to the third sentence, before I couldn't resist to upvote.

Focus on yourself before you focus on anything else, men. That is the key to living a good life.

  • [-]
  • Flutterbree
  • 1 Points
  • 06:06:35, 5 February

Step 1: Don't be ugly

  • [-]
  • Gold_Silverman
  • 1 Points
  • 13:41:42, 5 February

Remember, you have to eat big to get big.

  • [-]
  • redditor_chowder
  • 1 Points
  • 20:00:59, 5 February

A few weeks ago I picked up some high quality business-casual leather shoes. Coincidentally or not I've been opened by two women in a weeks time while wearing them. Have been putting in a lot of other types of effort too. My thoughts are the inner game type stuff is the cornerstone of what you're doing, then get your body in gear, then continually improve your wardrobe. It's the little details like shoes, watch, cologne that put you over the edge during a first impression. But you still have to have the mind and body work done, whether you need to work on it a lot or you're a natural.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 22:10:28, 7 February

> Is all of this "looks aren't that important" talk just hamstering away the prospect of having to work, sweat, and ache for results or am I just fucking clueless here?

I think they're talking about the kind of things you can't change (height, race, face/bone structure). Compared to being fit and having the right attitude, those things matter less in the sense that it's not what's keeping people from being attractive to women.

  • [-]
  • birdwontquit
  • -1 Points
  • 05:47:11, 4 February

Well you were fat. Your anecdotal insight isn't that valuable. Everyone knows fit >>> fat.

I find being attractive and fit is beneficial to a point, after which it has dimishing returns.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 2 Points
  • 07:24:52, 4 February

> I find being attractive and fit is beneficial to a point, after which it has dimishing returns.

I find the very opposite to be true, up to a certain point there seems to be no benefit at all, but once you break into that top 5% you need to install a fucking revolving door to keep your pussy traffic from jamming.

Of course, what would I know, I've only used this approach to bone over 500 chicks in my lifetime...

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 4 Points
  • 17:26:30, 4 February

You remind me of the Navy SEAL who has 200 confirmed kills...

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 2 Points
  • 04:43:48, 5 February

There's another interesting part of taking this approach to seduction: women will become more submissive for you. When I was younger I remember convincing chicks to suck my dick took a bit of effort, but now every chick sucks my dick like its the last one she'll ever get to taste... My typical date goes like this:

Meet up, head to a restaurant with a private booth. Order a bottle of wine, chat for 30-60 mins. Tell her point blank to come to my side of the table. Chat for another 15-45 mins. Make out. Pull my dick out. Get her to start jerkin it, then usually they just start blowing me. After I nut we get the check and I take her to my place and we bone. Cost: 20 dollars, time 1-2hrs. I've repeated this exact date probably 300-400 times...

The only thing that affects my success rate is my health. If I'm in a bit of a slump in the gym or just have generally worse health due to stress / lack of sleep / etc., it takes more time and I have more failures.

When I'm at an absolute physical peak what happens is usually the speed increases and the quality I pull raises a knotch or two across the board. In december I hit a peak for fitness where my squats were up to 180kgs, leg press was at 515kgs, at 82kgs of weight and I landed a model/singer who I'd rate as a 10 in bed along with a slew of other chicks in the 8-9 range. It was very obvious there was a direct correlation to this and my general health.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 14:38:53, 5 February

Are you Patrick Bateman?

  • [-]
  • SwimmingDutch
  • 2 Points
  • 15:09:20, 4 February

This is an interesting observation. Could you recall when you felt you crossed this line and became part of the 5%? Do you remember what weight you had at that time?

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 2 Points
  • 02:12:36, 5 February

Yes, a long time ago I didnt think looks / health were so important (even though I had always worked out at least a little and maintained a 4-12% bf for basically my entire life). I got pnemonia, after I recovered for about a 6 month period, girls wouldnt even talk to me / respond to me at all. I had never once in my life experienced rejection at such an extreme level. I was no Don Juan at the time but I had occassional success and women were usually friendly with me, but it was this low of lows that truly revealed it to me. It clicked in my head that health is extremely important and I went on a fucking health binge basically, working out 2x a day, eating healthy, doing everything in my power to maintain high verile energy levels, and eventually it got to the point where I would go out on a friday night, pull 10 numbers and fuck 5 of them over the next few weeks. At one point I was getting such high success rates that I would only go out once or twice a month because I had no time to farm for new prospects... and I was still banging 5-10 new chicks a month with this tiny amount of effort... Anyhow, it was the low that taught me the importance of health, then i decided to push it to the limit to see what happens, and not surprisingly the results were on the other extreme end of things.

The way I view things however is by a health / verility spectrum, lets say a 1-10 scale.

If you are a 1-2 then women will actively avoid you, they are designed to run from men that might give them diseases and compromise their own fertility / livelihood, so its understandable. Men have this instinct as well but I believe it's much stronger in women because many men will prioritize sex / passing genes over their own livelihood, probably due to the infrequency with which it occurred for many of our ancestors. Guys in this spectrum are: cancer patients, people recovering from life threatening illness, cripples, leppers, fat people, etc. This is a fucking hard category to try to work any form of game in, which is why if you are in this category and your problem is fixable, your best bet at getting a girl is to fix your god damned problem first.

If you are a 3-7 women are just going to be indifferent. 3-7 only prooves that you are average, and women don't want average, they are designed to only become aroused when presented with a man of superior mating quality. Because most men fall into this category (95-99% of men), people often falsely assume "looks dont matter," because the last spectrum is so rare that many of us don't notice it, and we attribute those top tier males' success to other things (yet every fuckin pro/semi pro athlete has women lining up in their fuckin hotels waiting to get nailed, hint: you wont find the same line of women in bill gates hotel). Honestly, I believe the way women view average men is a large part of the reason why they initiate divorce more than men, and are so often lacking libido in long term relationships / marriage. So basically marriage is designed to fall apart when the man is of average quality, but of course if he wasnt of average quality he probably wouldn't want to settle down anyhow. Creating a kind of dating conundrum: the ones who want to settle down are never the ones worth settling for, which applies to both men and women imo. Perhaps this is another reason why women are repelled by men who give out their commitment freely. And also keep in mind that game in this spectrum still works, I think most guys in this spectrum who have game and go on 1-2 dates a week with new prospects, can easily bone 1-5 new chicks a month.

8-10. As an 8 your in the top 5%, things become noticably different, maybe your results improve by 2x what they used to be as a 6-7. As a 9 you're in the top 1% and your success increases exponentially again perhaps 2-4x what your success as an 8 was, to the point where the effort to become a 10 doesn't even seem worthwhile. And as a 10, only a small fraction of men ever achieve this i believe, women will not say no to you, they literally can't and won't stop themselves. The only thing that will ever stop a true male 10 are external factors / logistics / unforseen circumstances / non-negotiable rejection, etc, but again these factors all begin to diminsh as well. She only likes black guys? Well if you are high enough up the spectrum as a white guy she will still fuck you. She only like guys with hair? Again, high enough up the spectrum and your bald ass can still fuck her. Those seemingly insurmountable factors become kind of a "meh" point...

And then we come to the biggest difference between a male 9 on the health spectrum and a male 5-7 on the health spectrum. TIME INVESTMENT PER LAY.

The amount of time investment required to bang chicks will dramatically decrease as you raise up the spectrum, because getting women horny becomes easier by a long shot. As I experimented with these health related seduction principles, at first it was taking me around 6-8 hours of time investment. Which slowly turned into 4-6 hours, and then 2-4 hours, which seems to be about the current limit for me personally. Obviously there are exceptions here and there were I had extremely fast lays (like 5 mins), but that's not the norm. I'd say most of my dates are about a 2 hour investment for a lay nowadays, and there are far fewer women that need more than one date to bone. Happens sometimes of course prolly 1 in 5 to 1 in 10 women require 2-3 dates instead of 1, but still I keep my dates so short that the total time investment is still well under 10 hours of work.

  • [-]
  • SwimmingDutch
  • 2 Points
  • 12:35:17, 6 February

Thanks for the detailed post, its much appreciated. I think you make an interesting point with this: "Because most men fall into this category (95-99% of men), people often falsely assume "looks dont matter,"

I just started going back to the gym with the goal to make it to 90kg. I am 184 cm and 84kg now with a natural bf of 18%. As I haven´t done anything in the gym for around 10 years I´ve decided to spend some money and start the first half year/year with a personal trainer to make sure I am doing the right things.

It will be interesting to see if my experience can back up your views.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 2 Points
  • 00:17:30, 7 February

Good luck dude ~

You do need to achieve a difficult level of fitness to get what im talking about here. And although body weight can be an indicator, it isn't the only part of the equation.

I honestly find Vo2 max and overall aesthetic balance (proportions) as a better indicator of fitness (as it relates to seduction) than overall body weight. But high muscularity definitely helps as well. At 18% bf Id suggest cutting before ever bulking. /r/leangains is a good start.

For this reason I think it's good to couple your activities with difficult to achieve fitness goals: 2-3x squats/deads, 1.5-2x bench, a sub 5 minute mile, etc.

  • [-]
  • SwimmingDutch
  • 1 Points
  • 15:03:47, 10 February

Thanks for the advice. I think it will be difficult to get hooked up to a Vo2 meter here in South America but I will find out. First I need to show some dedication to myself and actually put in the time in the gym.

To be honest I have no idea how hard a challenge I have put for myself in aiming for 90kg but time will tell I guess. At this moment preparing the food that I need is more of a challenge as I havent spent a lot of time in the kitchen in the last years.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 00:09:08, 12 February

Use the cooper test to measure Vo2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_test

Or just train for Vo2, and Vo2 will increase.

  • [-]
  • autowikibot
  • 1 Points
  • 00:10:00, 12 February
	
	

	

Cooper test:


>The Cooper test is a test of physical fitness. It was designed by Kenneth H. Cooper in 1968 for US military use. In the original form, the point of the test is to run as far as possible within 12 minutes. The test is meant to measure the condition of the person taking it and therefore it is supposed to be run at a steady pace instead of sprints and fast running. The outcome is based on the distance the test person ran, their age and their sex. The results can be correlated with VO2 Max. It is an easy test to perform on larger groups. The length of the run is considered to be that of a long distance run, since everything above 3 km is rated "long distance"—which means the runner will predominately use his "red", slow oxidative muscle cells.

>


^Interesting: ^Kenneth ^H. ^Cooper ^| ^VO2 ^max ^| ^Training ^effect ^| ^Cooper's ^sign

^\/u/TokyoPickup ^can [^delete](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+cfczucx)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| ^(FAQs) ^| ^Mods ^| ^Magic ^Words ^| [^flag ^a ^glitch](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/autowikibot&subject=Glitched comment report&message=What seems wrong: (optional description goes here)%0A%0A---%0A%0AReply no. 53429:%0Ahttp://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1wyld6/adiscussiononappearanceandwhyits_fucking/cfcztjn)

  • [-]
  • birdwontquit
  • 2 Points
  • 17:13:10, 4 February

Cool story. How old are you?

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 02:13:53, 5 February

31

  • [-]
  • bbcabes
  • 1 Points
  • 05:24:01, 4 February

>Men are attracted to visual values. Women are attracted to behavioral values. Your analogy works wonders because for us to imagine their reality it's best to imagine they are blind to looks and money—and only see behavior. As someone once stated, the best looking guy at a party and the life of the party are two completely different guys. Looks actually has nothing to do with it, for women. Women are wired to analyze behavior and choose the guy who would be chosen by many, but they just happened to "win the lottery" with him for the night.

This is a comment in one of the threads you (might) be referencing too. Not exactly

>To me, it sounds like a watered down RP-version of "Looks don't matter, just be yourself!!!"

Yes, looks are important. Yes, as are other traits. It's all helping, it's all RP.

  • [-]
  • InsanityManifest
  • 8 Points
  • 06:14:16, 4 February

See, this is what I"m talking about. Framing value as an X vs. Y waters down RP Theory.

Both sexes are attracted to multiple things, with multiple motives for each of those things. Humans aren't magic machines that can discern all of that in a split second, so people go with their firsts (first sight, first impression, first conversation) and tend to not deviate from those things unless other factors come into play. That's the other-side of basic frame.

They will judge you based on the first 3 seconds of seeing you and after that, it's up to you to maintain the frame.

>Yes, looks are important. Yes, as are other traits.

They are all important but not equally. That's what separates us from /r/seduction and PUA forums. Working out is easier than trying to figure out/anticipate/counter others expectations of you and yields better benefits, such as not having to approach.

I was wearing my long sleeve soccer shirt just yesterday at the bus stop. This girl opens me out of the blue and start flirting like crazy. I hadn't said shit to her and the more I tried to disengage, the more desperate she became.

"Oh, I'm not trying to hit on you."

Bullshit.

It wasn't my charm, good-nature, or game that opened her. It was the way my muscles made my shirt bulge and stretch with each step I took. That was the second thing her eyes locked onto when she saw me. The first was my face.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 5 Points
  • 12:23:15, 4 February

LOL if this was Seddit they would've said "Oh she was attracted to the confidence you exuded while wearing that shirt!"

  • [-]
  • bbcabes
  • 1 Points
  • 06:28:51, 4 February

>They will judge you based on the first 3 seconds of seeing you and after that, it's up to you to maintain the frame.

You kind of just stated the importance of both. But you are right, and I mean, anything that happens after that is a direct result of the 3 seconds of that big once-over that men and women seem to exchange so often. I have actually taken to simply going for a walk after the gym to do grocery shopping or pick something up at the store. I'm usually looking my best and pretty pumped up from the gym still and it's got me into conversations with girls (+numbers) twice now who might have otherwise not noticed me. Anecdotal w/e

  • [-]
  • sweetleef
  • 1 Points
  • 09:28:43, 4 February

> It wasn't my charm, good-nature, or game that opened her. It was the way my muscles made my shirt bulge and stretch with each step I took. That was the second thing her eyes locked onto when she saw me. The first was my face.

And if a 110-pound billionaire pulled up in a Ferrari, she'd turn her back on you in an instant.

All else equal, a more fit physique is preferred, obviously - but it doesn't trump power and social status.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 12:23:28, 4 February

No shit?

  • [-]
  • bigjeffrey
  • 1 Points
  • 05:32:55, 4 February

What's the first thing that you do when you see a woman? You probably immediately decide in your head whether or not you think she's hot. Women do the same thing to men. Why would you not try to be fit and dress nice? That's just the way things are.

  • [-]
  • LukeMooney
  • 1 Points
  • 07:24:12, 4 February

Just started the original 5x5 workout - I'm going to get BIG

  • [-]
  • YouDislikeMyOpinion
  • 2 Points
  • 07:52:18, 4 February

I love 5x5.

If you're doing 5x5 and you're already pushing a lot of weight, and you're not sure you can add on to the weight and successfully do 5x5: keep the weight the same and do 6x6. Even if you don't make it to 6x6, by the next time, you should be able to do 5x5 of the higher weight.

You can also take longer rests.

Check these charts out http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html

Set realistic goals.

  • [-]
  • Afroemo
  • 1 Points
  • 10:33:38, 4 February

5x5 is strength gaining program not for mass gaining . For mass gaining you need to lift heavy enough to complete 4x8-12 reps plus the diet and the sleep .

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 1 Points
  • 12:18:25, 4 February

>For mass gaining you need to lift heavy enough to complete 4x8-12 reps plus the diet and the sleep .

Don't you mean light enough? A weight you can only do 5 reps on, is to heavy do 8-12 reps on.

  • [-]
  • Afroemo
  • 1 Points
  • 12:42:31, 4 February

you don't have to lift 85% of your one rep max , for example i can bicep curl 30 kg 5x5 , but i can also bicep curl 23 kg 4x8 reps . English is my 3rd language so its kind of hard to explain .

Point is you have to lift heavy with many reps and be on caloric surplus with enough sleep . There are really good bodybuilding channels on youtube like tigerfitness and bios3training and other old school bodybuilders , they know their shit .

  • [-]
  • erich_von_stalhein
  • 1 Points
  • 14:53:44, 4 February

I understand what you mean.

The trouble with learning about bodybuilding from youtube etc. is that there's so much broscience.

  • [-]
  • Afroemo
  • 1 Points
  • 15:05:22, 4 February

the broscience is the bodybuildings science . Bodybuilders are like scientist except they do experiments at the gym instead of labs .

  • [-]
  • hringmisual
  • 0 Points
  • 18:21:05, 4 February

5x5 of heavy weight can be used for mass gaining considering the calories you consume. You will stop making linear strength progress on 5x5, guarantee

  • [-]
  • drallcom3
  • 1 Points
  • 17:08:13, 4 February

5x5 doesn't get you that big. It gives you strength. I've been doing 5x5 for almost one year now and while I got strength, my appearance hasn't changed that much.

Now I'm doing 3x10 and even after only one month I can see a change.

The best is actually to do both. One month strength, one month hypertrophy.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 12:14:43, 4 February

Seddit turned to shit the moment the hivemind started thinking that "appearance doesn't matter, it's all inner game".

  • [-]
  • Meglomaniac
  • 1 Points
  • 14:14:05, 4 February

One of the most important things I have learned is that you need to find a style that suits you. You cant try to shoehorn yourself into something that you like but it looks like shit on you. Not everyone is meant to fill out a suit, or look good with jewelry, but will pick up girls left and right wearing jeans and a band tshirt.

Personal anecdote. Im a very large guy, I look like a biker but I always tried to avoid the look because I like the classier look. One day after reading some TRP I said fuck it and started wearing a bandana to the bar, and wearing clothing that suited that sort of style. My results with women went through the roof, and I was starting to catch attitude from the other guys who were trying to shittest me calling me "axl rose" and other things. It really worked for me to find a style that looks good on you, and rocking it.

  • [-]
  • General_Fear
  • 0 Points
  • 11:23:25, 4 February

It stands to reason. If you look like a million bucks then you will attract more women because they think you got money.

  • [-]
  • tallwheel
  • 0 Points
  • 02:38:19, 5 February

Yes, appearance does matter. The sluttier the clothes and the thickness of the whore paint clearly advertises how much of a slut she is.

  • [-]
  • draketton
  • -1 Points
  • 07:06:47, 4 February

If you're a newbie to exercise, you start with cardio and bodyweight routines. Lifting in a gym is what you graduate to after a year or two of that.

The most important change the average man can make to his diet is to have water as his staple drink, and cut way back on things like beer, coffee, soda, and sweet juice.

Sports can be dangerous. Some reading up on them is required before a guy just jumps into them.

No one was acknowledging any of this on TRP, people were just breaking it down to short, useless mantras like "hit the gym" and "eat right." We've always been able to break down the intracacies of body language, conversation, and value in great detail, but TRP's advice on taking care of the body has been crap advice with crap results. No wonder it fell to the way side.

  • [-]
  • IrishPUA
  • 5 Points
  • 08:53:54, 4 February

Fuck cardio, if you want to lose motivation at the gym start doing cardio. The amount of guys I see running on treadmills and messing around with machines. These guys aren't going to last 3 months. Any progress they make will be gone very quickly.

  • [-]
  • roadywan
  • 5 Points
  • 11:31:47, 4 February

Nobody likes cardio, but it's one of those necessary evils unless you want to be a strong fat-ass.

  • [-]
  • JohnDoe78
  • 2 Points
  • 00:52:26, 5 February

I personally made the best weight loss dropping cardio and putting that effort into my diet. Count your calories and your macros, the weight will just fall off.

  • [-]
  • TavolettaRossa
  • 1 Points
  • 11:27:04, 4 February

Agreed. Barbell complexes with short rest periods will crucify you, keep the heart ticking over and boost the ability to burn off extra chunk, love throwing these in at the end of a power day or a day off.

  • [-]
  • JohnDoe78
  • 2 Points
  • 11:14:09, 4 February

No No No No No ffs hit the gym, goto r/fitness and ready the sticky. This is just a wasted year you will regret in the future.

  • [-]
  • InsanityManifest
  • 0 Points
  • 07:29:51, 4 February

Good points.

There hasn't been much by way of practical info but, to be fair we are on Reddit, which has resources aplenty for those that don't know where to start. I think TRP is about explaining things that society would rather we didn't know (or believe) about women and the sexual market place. We know what it takes to lose weight and there are plenty of people who've devoted themselves to showing us how, outside of TRP.

For me, seeing "Hit the Gym" pop up so much helped my motivation to get in the gym and stick to it. I realized that I wouldn't reach my full potential and anytime I felt BP traits re-emerge, that mantra kept coming back to kick me in the ass.

I'm not a strong-willed person in some regards and while working out has improved it, TRP is what got me motivated. I realized if I wanted to be treated as an alpha, I needed to feel like one.

  • [-]
  • captshady
  • -2 Points
  • 14:01:39, 4 February

I don't think looks do matter. With game you can easily get it going with a girl 3 points higher than you. If you're a 2, you're pretty much limited to a 5. Dressing well, increasing your financial earnings, getting fit, will bump a 2 to a 5, allowing you to get 7's and 8's.